Should You Rebrand Yourself? With Noah Neiman

Electronic Dance Money Episode #079 - Should You Rebrand Yourself? With Noah Neiman

This week I’m joined by Noah Neiman a.k.a. Doctor Neiman!

Noah has been writing music for well over 20 years now with releases on some of the biggest labels, including: Armada, Revealed, Enhanced, Disciple and many more!

Noah recently rebranded himself from the Progressive/Future Bass genre to Dupstep.

His rebrand has come with it’s own struggles, but he’s starting to see some of this biggest success since switching it up.

We’re going to dive into whether or not you should rebrand, the pains that come iwth a rebrand, what to expect and how to tackle a big change.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Whether you should rebrand or not
  • What is involved with rebranding
  • How to rebrand yourself
  • The pains of rebranding
  • Benefits of rebranding

and much more!

Episode Links


Doctor Neiman Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/doctorneiman/

Doctor Neiman Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/noahneimanmusic

Electronic Dance Money Episode #043 – Live Streaming and The Future of Copyright in Live Streaming with Darran Bruce – https://enviousaudio.com/episode43

Andrew Huang Video on Focus as a Musician – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dqRWCruulI

Doctor Neiman’s Epic Workout Playlist (aka Mandalorian workout playist, what a weirdo, lol) – https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1Qe8TAzgbDWgyVCdyAlC3t?si=7b529acaafd84464

Doctor Neiman’s Disciple Release – https://open.spotify.com/track/0jNkexeJJKBJHzQybaHPrg?si=4c53155028744a3a

Electronic Dance Money Booklist – https://enviousaudio.com/booklist

Automatic Episode Transcript — Please excuse any errors, not reviewed for accuracy

Hey guys, welcome to electronic dance money, your number one business resource for making money as electronic musicians and producers.

all right, take two of the, for electronic dance money. I’m your host Christian casino, and I’m so fucking excited about this episode. It’s been a long time coming. I’m still, I recorded an episode yesterday, um, with, uh, my buddy, Steve, and I told you guys I’m, I’ve lost my voice from all the damn hockey games I’ve been going to screaming.

I’m here with Noah Neiman, also known as Dr. Neiman and, uh, we’ve. We’ve been buddies for a while now. And we’ve been talking about doing an episode together for far too long and a little bit we’re. Fuck. Yeah, we’re finally doing it. Episode 79. You’re 10 off from the best number. Uh, are you doing Noah? I’m good, man.

Thanks for having me on. I’m glad to finally be here. I know this is going to be a lot of fun. So I’ve talked about you endlessly on this podcast. A lot of my listeners are familiar with your name because I’ve named dropped you many a time talking about different business stuff and, um, Different things that you’re doing, or, uh, I, I’ve also mentioned you just not even naming you and been like, oh my friend so-and-so did this and that, but, um, that’s my middle name actually.

So-and-so so-and-so, that’s why I’ve heard. Uh, so you, are they dropping you? Uh, we’re finally doing an episode together and I’m really, I’m excited about this episode because it’s something that, um, uh, I’ve thought about. I’ve done a branding episode in the past, but it was like, man, that was episode three that I did back in 2019.

That episode is so outdated now, like just with, I mean, branding in general, especially cause it was mostly focused on Instagram branding and I mean, Instagram train changes every three months. So it’s like anything you were doing the three years ago is completely wrong now for the most part, some things kind of, the fundamentals will kind of stay true.

You go ahead. Yeah, no, that was going to say, yeah. I mean, there’s just so much this happened between then and now. I mean, COVID for one, you know, it’s, it’s changed so much of what’s going on now in the music world, you know, nobody could do anything alive, so you had to think of other ways to make money, you know?

And so it’s just a really important thing to talk about. Yeah. Well, in marketing, in general, you had, you actually bring up a pretty good point with COVID like marketing changed everything with music, because I mean, the big moneymaker really was shows. It still is. I mean, shows are still the big moneymaker, but that completely changed during kind of like, okay, now you have probably hundreds, if not thousands, probably actually, if you really think about it, people who literally do live gigs for a living.

Thousands of people like that. People who put on festivals, festivals festival after festival now like the unemployment for all these people who all they did was live sound. And then all of the artists, there’s a massive gap in like people who just don’t have any jobs anymore. And so now you have to come up with new ideas of what the hell you’re going to actually do.

Um, for artists specifically, it changed the game while like, uh, streaming, like the amount streaming that increase through that. And I had, uh, Darren Bruce on from, uh, the DJ sessions located in Seattle and he came on to talk. I think it was, I think it was about a year ago. I think it was sometime in 2021 to kind of talk about what happened with live streaming and what’s going on with life.

Really really good two parter episode that we did because when like right when COVID hit, it hit in like March and then in April or June, the, the amount of signups on Twitch and then the amount of people streaming and music on Twitch, just like tripled overnight. I mean, it’s, it’s insane. How many people got into it now?

I think it’s dying now, which is funny because I think if, I mean, if you got into that game around that time, I think it is going to be tough to like get an audience. But now I would suspect that a lot of people are still watching stuff on Twitch, but creators have fallen off of. And so now there’s actually probably a decent audience when we were first talking about that stuff though.

Last year, there wasn’t a lot of in there, there wasn’t a ton of audience to go round. There were kind of people dominating the scene, but now I would suspect there’s less creators, more of an audience and people could actually continue doing that sort of stuff. Yeah. I think that, you know, it’s funny that you mentioned Darren, because I actually did an interview with him just a couple of months ago.

I’m not sure if he heard of me through you or independently, but that’s just kind of funny anyways. Yeah. I, you know, I about Twitch, I, I don’t know if a whole lot of people are taking that as seriously as they were a year ago or two years ago. Just simply because it it’s, you know, it’s, it’s not as much of a cash cow as doing live shows and you can do live shows now.

So if you’re doing, if you were doing live shows, you were really doing Twitch just to sort of stay REL relevant. And you know, like, I dunno for, for guys like me, you know, like, I, I w I kept on toying with the idea of getting into it and I just never did, like, I, I, I bought stuff for it. Like I bought a green screen and a fucking like, uh, a lighting kit and all this, I spent probably that, you know, a thousand dollars or something like that.

And, and all that stuff is sitting in a box, like in its box, like unopened in the closet. And I just always meant to open. And I was like, okay, I’m going to do this. You know, I see, like, I, I dunno. I just see like, all these guys like doing that, and it just. Didn’t I don’t know. I guess, I don’t know if it didn’t appeal to me or if it didn’t, you know what, but I mean, I was just like, you know, I could focus more on, you know, writing music then streaming it for free too.

I dunno how many people would, would tune in, you know, cause I’m not, you know, DJ snake, you know, you know, if he got on Twitch, you know, or marshmallow or whatever, you know, like those guys sure. Like they, you know, they’re going to get sponsorships and that kind of stuff, but you know, I mean, it’s just like, cause I guess it wasn’t for me and.

You know, I did sign up for it and I got like, like single digit followers or something like that. But, you know, I, I think that that for people who really continue with it and like took it seriously, I mean, they could definitely go places with it, but, you know, I dunno, I guess it’s too Easter on twitches and this is kind of what we got into that episode.

We got into the nitty gritty of like, should you really start a Twitch channel is now the best time to, and I mean, ideally the best time to start a Twitch channel. And this was with, I mean, there’s a lot of other things you could think about. Like the best time to invest invest in Bitcoin was 2011, but no one did like the same thing with getting on Twitch as a streamer, the best time to get on Twitch as a streamer for music in general.

Pre COVID, you know, if you established an audience pre COVID, then COVID hits and there’s Matt, this massive flood of not just users going to watch Twitch streams, but huge artists that draw more people to go watch Twitch streams, and then they happen upon your stream because it’s on the front page because you’ve been applying, you know, you’ve been working that Twitch channel for so long that, and you’ve just naturally grown your audience that when that floods in there, you’re going to benefit from that.

Even if you’re not a no-name. So it’s like, I, you know, hindsight’s 2020, like it would be, would have been great to have been involved in Twitch at that time. But, you know, in Twitch takes so much time, like that’s the thing. Uh, and with music, it’s like, you got to find one thing to kind of pivot and. And, and fixate on.

And if you can fixate on that one thing, you’re going to be successful in that one area. Andrew Wang just came out with a video a few days ago, which was fucking fantastic. And he talked about this idea of focus like fo like focusing is the way to success. He focused on just creating YouTube channel YouTube.

And he released two videos per week for over like a year or two and grew his channel to over a million subscribers. And like, that was his idea of like, I just need to focus on this one thing. If I focus on that, it’s going to grow to where I want it to be. And so I think that’s like a massive part. Of of what producers need to be doing in.

So if you can focus in on that Twitch stream, it will be successful over time if you’re consistent and that’s all, all of where your focus is. So we’re getting lost in the weeds here. I want to backtrack a little bit, uh, and I, because, okay, I’ve talked about you to my audience before, but they don’t know who Noah Neiman is.

They don’t know who Dr. Neiman is. They don’t know your story. So let me take us back a little bit because your history is fantastic. Your story through the music scene is amazing and say, even with your personal life, what you’ve been able to accomplish while still maintaining what I would argue is a pretty successful music career.

So take us through your history and your story. Like where does this start and how did you get to where you are today?

Yeah. Oh man, I have, there are, there are probably multiple starting points that I could tell you about man. The first door that I used was Mario paint on super Nintendo. I don’t know if a lot of your listeners even know what Mario paint is, but the main thing that you know was in, they was, it was a game, obviously it was on super Nintendo, but it was more of like a creative thing where you could, like, you could, you could make pictures and videos and stuff like that.

Using, uh, Nintendo like, uh, assets. So you could make, it was this, it was the first sampler. It really was. I mean, I don’t know if it was the first, but it was, it was, yeah, it was, yeah, it was, it was a sampler and it was the first one that I came across. So you could make, you know, you could eat, there was, there was like a, you know, a note, like an actual, like a musical notation bar, like a G clef bar.

And, you know, you could line up notes on, on it. And, but the notes were not like piano sounds or trumpet center or classical music sounds. They were like Yoshi sounds or like Mario jumping sounds or fucking like, like when did you get the star of that kind of thing? And so, you know, so, so I recreated Twilight zone by two unlimited using Yoshi and Mario sound.

And it was just, I mean, it blew my mind that I could actually do this. And I didn’t even know, like I got bought the game wanting to like, just like paint stuff and they had this entire like side game. That was a doll essentially. So, you know, so that was my, like in like my, my, my first foray into music making, you know, and in fast forward, like I, you know, just gobbled up every single dollar that was out there and just started learning more and more and more about music.

And, you know, I had been playing music since I was four. I played the piano since I was four violent since I was probably about seven and then trombone since I was nine, you know? And so I’ve been, you know, in a very musical household. Like my father is a fantastic pianist and same thing with my sister.

So it was just, it was music was everywhere. And my mom. Let’s like a super like huge disco and eighties era music like enthusiast. So, you know, I’ve always been around music and it just was a big part of my life. And so, you know, I, I, I th I started really kind of taking music seriously, probably when I graduated from optometry school.

Maybe a little bit earlier than that. Uh, actually definitely only in those probably my second year, I did this, this, this song, a remix for a friend of mine, Zachary as America. And it caught Marcus Schultz, his ear, and Marcus T he texted me out of the blue while I was sitting in a lecture. And I, you know, it was like, uh, I think it was, I think it was an optics lecture and I was getting texts from Marcus Schulte and he’s like, Hey, it’s Marcus Schulte.

You know, I heard her saw. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no. Cause cause cause cause the, the, the, the owner of the record label that I did this remix for was really, really like personal good friends with Marcus. And so he got my number from the guy and, and, and the guy, his name’s Jeff D really good friend of mine lives in Washington, DC.

I want to say 2010, maybe 2009, something like that. It was like the epic trance heydays were where you were writing trans at this time. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I was riding trans. And so it was like the height of, of that kind of music, you know, very melodic production standards were not, I would say there, they weren’t like what they are today, but the music was this, the musicality, everything was, was, was phenomenal anyways.

So, so Marcus texts me and like, my mind is like blowing, like during this lecture. And like, I’m like looking around at people and like, they’re just, you know, uh, you know, listening to an optics lecture and I’m talking to Marcus Schultz and it was just blowing my mind. So anyways, you know, he got me to write a remix for Kuranda hu, which, which introduced me to a now very good friend of mine, James Wood, who was, who was one of the main guys from Kuranda and David called.

Who is now my best friend. And we hang out, we hang out all the time and he was the vocalist and the track. But anyway, so, so that led to, you know, a bigger and better things like continuously. It’s just, it was like one stepping stone to another. And I finally hooked up with tri tonal, who again, was doing trans at the time.

And funny enough, you know, we’re, we’re both from Texas. You know, I was living in Houston at the time they were living in Halston. And the plan for me was to always move back to Austin because that’s where my wife’s family is. And that’s kinda where we always wanted to be. So it just worked out really well.

And so I got really close with them and started writing music for them and, and for their label and hand. And eventually they took me on tour and stuff and it just kind of, like I said, it kind of blew up from there. Did you shift your, you, you had a genre shift after you were writing trance. When did you start to shift?

So like the idea of this episode, which most of you probably know by the title when you’re checking this out is talking about rebranding. So you kind of had instances and I mean, even tri tonal has over the years of like small rebrands of just genres. So this whole time you were going under the name, no anemic, correct?

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I, you know, I didn’t really have any sort of, you know, DJ name or whatever. It was just my first and last name, but yeah. So, so with try tonal dare sound really. I mean, they were exploring themselves as artists, I suppose you could say. And you know, they, they started off in trans, which is where I was and that’s how we met.

And then, because I got signed on to their label, You know, we kind of, we kind of had to keep the sound cohesive. You know, the, the record label owner will Holland was, was sort of directing everybody as to what, you know, we could really capitalize on at the time and, you know, just what, what we were feeling artistically, you know?

So, so they kind of transitioned from trans into progressive house, which was, you know, nowadays it’s kind of like EDS. You know, the, the guys who were on the label who were sort of mainstays on the label, but other than try tonal, we kind of, we kind of pivoted wherever they wanted to pivot. And I, you know, I was really feeling like everything that they were doing.

Like we went from trans to progressive house to there’s a little bit, a little bit of big room in there, you know? And then, and then, uh, yeah, yeah. Future-based and pop became like the main thing that, that enhanced was known for probably these dates might be off, but I want to say like 20 17, 20 18, something like that.

Yeah. I think that was around that time. Cause we met in 20, like mid 2016. I had just moved to Austin and it was like October of 2016. You were opening up for . I saw you shot you a message on Facebook and then we just started talking from there. And that was right when you were coming out with, um, Yup.

Make it so good. Yeah. Yeah. Which I heard on a mashup, a mix the other day, while it was rolling at jujitsu, but yeah. Make it so good. Which that was more like progressive, but then out, it was like right after that is when you really started to push into to some future-based stuff in like 2017 leading into 2018.

Yeah. Yeah. So the pop stuff really came when, you know, the trend, the Chainsmokers sort of like took over the scene and really made that sound popular. You know, like electronic pop was really a big thing and, and, you know, everybody was kind of feeling that sound and, and I think that, you know, tri tonal could really did that sound well.

And so, you know, again, thank all of us on the, on the label, sort of wanted to, to, you know, explore that, that area in, in, in, in the industry and, and kinda just, you know, and I don’t want to say, um, We were like, we weren’t like chasing trends. Really. It was, it was more of kind of like a natural evolution.

But yeah, some people kind of, some people kind of say that it was like that, you know, but it really, it really just sort of felt at the time, I guess, you know, like guys like Zed, you know, every time, every time he comes out with a single, it doesn’t sound anything like the single that came out whenever, you know, six months ago or a year ago, whenever he comes out with whatever.

And it’s because, you know, as an artist, you sort of evolve your sound every time that you write a song. I, well, I think that’s a really important point to make. It’s like, there’s a reason why people chase trends and like, as an artist, you do have to keep up with the times. But as you grow as an artist, you also develop your own sound.

And I think quote, unquote, chasing a trend is okay. It’s not like, uh, it’s not a bad idea. I think where it becomes an issue is if you’re just lazy writing and you’re not even trying to put your own take on something and it’s. Let me just fucking write something for the masses that everyone’s into right now.

And I know I’ll get X amount of streams or X amount of money off of this release. I think, where it becomes super important. And you actually make a really good point, like try Tomo did a really good job of transitioning their sound painting with dreams is a fantastic fucking album album that came out in 2018 and they utilized a lot of that pop sound, progressive house sound, a little bit of the future based stuff.

There, there was a really good mix of their own sound put onto a lot of these tracks that made them super original, but it kept up with the trend at the time. That’s really what does define and in differentiates yourself as an artist is when you can take a really trendy John rhe, like right now is like, what is it?

Color base and future rave or something like that. I can, I think those are the two genres that are really popping up right now. And like Philly, something like that. I know David Guetta made like future or something. So the issue is like, I flipped through V pour all the time, updating to update my playlist, find new tracks.

And I hear these future age tracks all the time. It’s like, what is the difference between this? And like the third one I heard, or the one I heard three songs ago, like there’s no guests to way is like, it becomes super important where you can put your own sound on stuff. And it’s like, oh, this sounds like this artist, but it’s with this genre, this new genre that’s coming out.

I think that’s where you can follow a trend. You can capitalize off of a trend, but you’re still staying true to yourself as an art. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s tough with electronic music, like sounding like yourself, but keeping up with the times because you know, it’s so easy to just download a preset or a sample and make that the focus of your song for me.

Yeah. I mean, I’ve done it, you know? Yeah. I mean, I’ve done it on the latest track that I did, but like what differentiates mine from, you know, whatever else is out there that’s using that same sample is the fact that, you know, like just the way that I produce it, you know, the way that I use that sample.

And so, I don’t know. I mean, you know, it, it, it, it, it really comes down to like, do you have a process or are you just like, are you starting from scratch each time? Because if you’re starting from scratch each time, then you never really developing a sound. You’re just developing a song like right then and there, you know, so you have a chance to reflect on what you did last time, evolve that and take the things that are good out of it.

Move that into the next thing and scrap the shit that sucked exactly right. Exactly. It was probably around 12. It was 2019. Uh, that you decide to actually completely flip the script and do a, like a straight up rebrand, new name, new moniker, new logo, new John rhe, everything. Um, I mean, it, it’s pretty, I think it’s pretty easy to go from like the 2010 to 20 13, 20 12 trans epic trans era move into that progressive big room sound.

It’s, that’s an easy transition to make. It’s not as, um, shocking as going from something like that. Pop sound to what you’re now doing in dubstep. Um, so tell me a little bit about your rebrand and why you decided to decide to rebrand, because for those of you who don’t know, Noah’s straight up when from, I mean, you were starting to make more aggressive stuff at the end of that Noah Neiman era.

Um, it was a lot of, kind of, you know, one 70 BPM. Future-based type stuff, starting to creep into the dubstep, but you still had a lot of like poppy elements to your tracks. Um, what made you want to switch that to go straight hard dub step? Um, and what, what was the reason for that rebrand? Well, I mean, it, part of it is just straight up the vibe of dubstep.

Like, you know, it’s kind of the reason why I got into trans is because there’s a lot of energy in that music. And, you know, being with enhance, uh, has kind of driven me down the path of like calmer and calmer and calmer music, which is cool. There’s nothing wrong with that, you know, and, and enhances, you know, no shade on them as this phenomenal record label.

And they have done only good things for me, but I just, I guess it was just not like the direction that I wanted to go hard historically. Or at least I kind of realized that at that time. So I was like, you know, for me dance music is all about energy and like, and taking things to an 11, you know, really, really pushing that, you know, that limit hard, you know, that bitch.

Yes, yes. The only way you’re headlining. So, you know, so I was just kinda like, you know, what has the most energy and, you know, dubstep is like the only thing that came to my mind. So, and, and, you know, as you said, you know, my music was kind of like taking, like, it was like going in that direction. If you listened to all my stuff from like 2011, all the way until today, And you saw that and you continued through the transition of no.

And even to Dr. Neiman, you could, you could, you’ll be able to see the transitions, the transition points towards dubstep. You know, like there was one track that I wrote for a stone records, which is revealed records sub-label and then they do more like kind of poppy stuff, but they signed this track that I did with, uh, Katie sky from London.

And she’s a phenomenal, uh, writer there’s called criminal. And. It’s really like super pop in the verses and then really takes a hard left into trap, like hard trap. And then, yeah. And then the last drop is, is, I mean, there’s, there’s a lot of dubstep noises, lots of wobbles, you know, lots of, lots of, you know, screechy stuff.

And that was probably the, the turning point. I was like, this is like, I love making these sounds. I love using these samples. I love, you know, what this sounds like. And I wanted to explore that sort of scene or that sort of, I dunno, that corner of dance music a little bit more, and it just really opened my eyes.

And I was like, man, it’s just a, it’s just, it’s just a lot of fun. It’s just it’s if this is the most fun I’ve had writing music in a very long. I re I remember because at that time that was when you and I were fun. I mean, we were working out together. Like we, we saw each other at almost like six days a week, man, out together.

It’s so much fun. I mean, we should probably get back to serious seriously. Um, but I remember you were going through that trades I’ve remembered. That was exactly what you were talking about though. You’re like, I’ve just, I’m having so much fun and you were, I mean, you were talking about possibly starting like a tech house type duo with another guy locally in town.

And I mean, you almost wrote like an album’s worth of tracks and you were like, yeah, this is cool. But like this isn’t, this is not what I’m wanting to do. And then it was immediately like right back to the dumpster. Yeah. That was a, I feel like that really, that literally was me chasing the trend because at that point that was when that kind of music was really popular.

And, you know, as a producer, like, I’m, I’m very, you know, I can, like, as, as my discography will, will show, I can kind of ride a lot of different things. And so I was like, all right, let’s, let’s see what this is kind of like, and it was fun to ride. It was cool, but it just like, man, Well, I just feel like tech house and you know, that kind of music and techno it’s I’ve, it’s always struck me as like the music that the opener plays, you know?

And I know, I know that like, there’s, there’s phenomenal DJs that read phenomenal music and they’ve won Grammys and stuff like that. And you know, it’s not like boring music at all, but that’s just the way it feels for me. I’m just like, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s like the quiet stuff that they play, you know?

Or, I mean, you know, like I relate to you, my dad is so into tech house and minimal, like he is the biggest, he’s the biggest fan of minimal house and tech house. That of anyone I know. And my dad, my dad is. He’s like he, a lot of the shit that I listened to. He’s like this, this sucks. This is not good. What is this?

This sucks. You need to listen to my stuff. My stuff is so good. And I’m over here. Like, no, like you’re wrong. So it really is like a personal taste thing where it’s like, totally, totally some people it’s like all the kin my, again, my dad for instance, is just a perfect example. He fucking loves that shit and doesn’t care for anything else.

Like yeah. If all he listened to was minimal and tech house, he could listen to that forever for the rest of his life. I could not. So no. Yeah, no, no me, me either. I mean, I don’t, I mean, honestly, I probably couldn’t listen to dubstep for the rest of my life either. You know, like when I, when I go to the gym now, you know, since like you and I are not going to the giant, I just have my headphones on the entire time with noise canceling.

It’s actually these right now that I’m using, by the way, apple, whatever they AirPods max, they are the real deal. Get, get, are those the, are they over the year? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They’re they’re over the year. Yeah. Those are they’re phenomenal. Wireless, wireless they’re over the year. And the noise canceling is like, by multiple reviews, the best on the market, they got that sexy beats technology.

And I’m telling you anyways, you know, but, but I’m, I’m, I’m listening to like, Like the Mandalorian or, or, or Boba fed or something like that, you know? No, no, no, no. The soundtrack, the soundtrack, you’re listening to the soundtrack. It’s epic, dude. It is. I just, I, I, uh, my, my Dr. Neiman Spotify artist profile, if you go there, you can scroll down and you’ll find, I’ve got my, I’ve got my playlist there.

So you can just come subscribe to them if you want. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s pretty epic, but, and it was, yeah, I don’t, I don’t think that, I mean, cause substeps pretty, it’s pretty intense. Like you can, you can’t really listen to that kind of stuff. You know, as like the only thing that you listen to is just it’s too much.

I’ve I’ve got a buddy that would, that would say, well, we’ll do it all. He fucking, that motherfucker loves dove. Steph I, every, I get like weekly messages, like, Hey, when are you going to start writing dubstep? And I’m like, never, I’m not going to, he loves dubstep. But there was also, I noticed a shift too, in some of your live shows like PR like a year prior to actually doing this rebrand of going into dubstep where you were basically just playing dubstep in your sets.

I remember seeing you open up for, um, or you were direct support for, um, cash cash, and that whole set, and that was in October of 20. 18. I’m pretty sure where it was nothing but just hard, hard dumpster. I don’t, I don’t know if I, I mean, I wasn’t playing like excision style, hard stuff, you know, I, it was still, it was still pretty.

Yeah. It was still and, you know, and then I, I did play some house and stuff like that. I was very like, like an open format kind of thing, but yeah, I mean, there was definitely, there was definitely, it was more focused on the hard stuff. Did you feel that shift coming around that time though? Like, as you were building stuff.

It was really just me testing out stuff, you know, like the way I DJ, like, I, I like to prep like big chunks of my said ahead of time. So I can kind of like, like plug stuff in, you know, as to what the crowd is vibing, you know, to at the time Mike’s okay. I’m like, you know, do they like this? Like, you’ll all play more of this.

And so I’ll have like three or four or five tracks that I know will work well together and I’ll just play them like that, you know, or I’ll make edits of them and, you know, so that’s how it sort of goes. And so if you, if you notice that it was like a much harder, it was just probably because I was like, okay, these guys are digging this stuff.

We’ll just give him more lad. You know, that’s kind of how I do my, my says now it’s really, you know, I, and I guess not now it’s always been like this, but I try to like, you know, Pop stuff into the verses and breaks and that kind of thing, but, you know, the drops are going to be really intense. And I think that that’s what people really want.

You know, when they’re coming to a dubstep show is, you know, they want really, really hard intense stuff. But for me anyways, I don’t know if, if everybody in the crowd is really going to Davis, but you know, at least the people in like the first, you know, few rows that I can see, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re always loving them, but yeah.

I mean just playing stuff like, you know, hopefully like Stacy’s mom, like, you know, that are like, you know, I dunno fucking Zed, you know, like a nice mashup is always great. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s funny, man. Yeah. Like dovetail, I mean, I’ve showed you all of them. Like I’ve got like probably 30 tracks written now, you know, either like, you know, fully finished or like probably 90% of the way finished.

And, uh, and they’re just, you know, waiting in the wings to get released on, you know, whatever label. Yeah. It’s just, I don’t know. It’s, it’s a lot of fun to write dubstep. It’s, you know, it’s also, like I said, you know, it’s just what I’m vibing with. And, and it’s sort of like a new thing. Like I’ve been doing music for so long that, you know, I don’t know.

And I, you know, it’s, it’s not my, like my main source of income, so I can afford to make a change like this and not worry about it all. Am I gonna alienate my fan base or am I going to, you know, be able to pay my mortgage or something like that? You know, this kind of leads us perfectly into the next segment I’d like to talk about, which is probably the number one question that most artists are going to have as they listen to this episode.

And they’re all probably quite shit. Should I rebrand or not? Um, or most of you are probably super comfortable in the brand that you’re in. Um, the genre that you’re in and that’s fine keep with that, but I definitely have talked to other artists recently who are thinking I might want to rebrand. I don’t know.

And a lot of these artists are pretty fucking small. Like there, it’s not like they have a huge following. And so I think this begs the question of wind should in artists, rebrand from what I’m hearing with you and what I mean from what I’m hearing with you, it’s it seems like it should be a rebrand should happen only.

At like the peak of, you know, I’m not feeling this and I want to do a big genre flip of something like where you’re going from progressive house future-based to like pretty, pretty hard dub step. Um, but not only that, like, you know, I think there is, there’s something too. If you want to follow a trend though, where you have to look at it, cause you, there are artists who have done a genre change, which isn’t really a full rebrand, right?

It’s it’s, you’re not completely rebranding with a new logo, new name. The person that comes to mind would be. Get her did Ashana change, like right before he went on to a release now album that was completely different from what got him big. And people fucking walked out of the show in, booed him off stage, which is insane.

And that was in again, that was like 2019. That was 2019, right around when you were doing this rebrand and you were talking about, think I want to go a dubstep. And I mentioned this where I was like, you might want to come up with a completely new name because here’s here. Here’s exhibit a of why you should not just do an immediate genre change, especially right before a tour.

And everyone’s coming to the show with an expectation. And I think he was doing much more chill stuff. So if you go from a dubstep specific audience and rebrand or not, not just rebrand, just do a genre, flip Shaun and a change. And everyone’s coming to the show expecting fucking dubstep. And you come on as the headliner that everyone’s there for, and you’re playing some chills.

And that ain’t gonna face not going to work at all now. And in defense of getter, like I think he has 100% control over what he wants to do. I think he should be able to do that stuff. That that’s fine. But I do think that there needs to be a little bit of like, I dunno, maybe put on the flyer or send out an email to everyone that is going to the show.

Hey, this is a, we’re not doing dubstep. It’s not dubstep. So at least people know, but outside of that, I think that’s where it becomes really important where it’s like, you got to seriously think about, uh, just coming up with a new name and Testo has, like, if you go look at his Wikipedia, he’s got like 10 or 15 different names he’s gone under.

And same with Arman. Like all of these artists have multiple different names that they go under for different genres that they want to play. And I think that’s where you, where rebrands become really important where. Even speaking to that, like, you don’t even need to necessarily give up and throw out your other artists.

Right. You could just start a new name, but for smaller, smaller artists. I don’t think that’s a good idea. I think, again, as we were talking about in the beginning, like focus is important. You should focus and then you can start toying with a different rebrand or whatever. But when do you feel like an artist should rebrand?

I mean, you’ve experienced this, I would say you’re starting to see more success in different ways and probably ways that are more meaningful for you when you did that rebrand. So I think you’re the best person to speak to this at, at the moment. So, I mean, as far as a rebrand, I mean, you know, I guess we can kind of nip this thing in the bud here for smaller artists.

It doesn’t matter. Like, you know, like, I mean, if you’ve got like a hundred followers or something like that, Mitch, just delete that account and make a new one. It doesn’t matter, you know, because like, you know, like that’s going to be mostly your friends and your friends will follow you whatever. And like, you know, it’s fine, you know?

Cause, cause your friends, I mean, at least you hope, you know, your, your good friends will support, support you, you know, but your friends, if they’re not. Yeah. Yeah. If like you do a rebrand and your friends, aren’t following you think about who your friends are, your friends. No, but, but, but you know, in all seriousness, like, you know that that’s not, you know, that’s not really even a question it’s sort of like, you know, it’s a no-brainer if you’re just not feeling something.

You know, you could even not rebrand and just like, do whatever else that you use that you want to do. Because like, like once you like build a real following or you’ve got like a number of people that are like mega fans and like people are coming out to shows to see you and not, you know, somebody else or, or like, or if you’re, if you’re like direct support for the headliner and you’ve got people wearing your t-shirt in the front row, you know, that’s something.

So, you know, like at that point, like, you know, if you want to do a rebrand, I wouldn’t recommend it. I would recommend doing like a side project, wish wishes, test the water. Well, not even that, I mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, and, and to be honest, like my Noah Neiman profile is still active. Like I’m still like, like there’s still there’s songs that I’ve written that are specifically for the Noah Neiman project.

Like I just haven’t released them. So that that’s not, I haven’t like canceled that project and just like completely moved on, you know, this Dr. Nima thing, is it kind of like a side project, but it just sort of like took, took my focus, which, you know, is, is a, is a thing that, you know, you keep bringing up and I did see that Andrew Huang episode and yeah, I think it’s, it speaks volumes to what artists should really kind of think about, you know, but, but as far as, you know, making the, making the decision to like give up on a particular project and start a brand new one, I mean, you have to really kind of weigh the pros and cons of, you know, what does this mean financially for me?

What does this mean? You know, artistically for me, is this going to alienate my fan base? Like I am working with, uh, an artist who I’m producing a few songs for her and she is looking to. Go a completely different direction with her sound and she is very popular and I don’t want to, you know, bring up an a names because it’s still sort of like under wraps right now, but she’s, she’s, she’s very popular.

She has a very big fan base. And, uh, the sound that she is going for is, is really sort of it’s, it’s, it’s very, very different for what she’s known for and she’s, and she’s known for something really cool. And, uh, you know, so I was talking to her about it and I was like, are you really sure you want me to produce this sound and not like this sound for you?

And, you know, cause she she’s a vocalist and you know, she, she’s an amazing writer, amazing vocalist and you know, an amazing producer her, you know, in her own. Right. But she’s just got so many songs that she’s working on. She’s coming out with an album. And so she, she needs a little bit of help just in terms of like timing.

And so, so I’m producing, you know, a few songs and I’m just like, I’m like we could do maybe like a, you know, like a sound that’s kind of closer to what you’ve did. And then like kind of like transition you into the more like, cause she’s going from more progressive sound to, to a little bit more of a, of a no call, more like a radio sound.

And, um, I’m just like, there’s like a, there is a middle ground there, you know, like, you know, you could do like a, you know, you don’t have to be like Metallica or, you know, like, I dunno, Enya, you know, there’s, there’s a middle ground there, you know? And, uh, and she’s like, no, I really want to do this. And I’m like, okay, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s fine.

You know, whatever you want. But I just think that, you know, I, and I, and I think she’s doing this because she’s just really feeling this, you know, she is just what she wants to do. And I think that if it’s marketed correctly, I think it could be fricking amazing. Cause like I said, she already has a huge fan base and she’s going to be touring with some other artists that are closer to the sound that she wants and you know, she’s going to be earning their fans.

So like, like thinking about it strategically and you know, thinking about the marketing, you know, telling people, okay, this is what’s going to be happening. You know, we’re going from this to this, like you had mentioned getter and he kind of just like popped up with a sound. And like people came to a show expecting his hard stuff.

And like probably the flier had his, you know, face on there, you know, looking all like, you know, a base face kind of thing that he does. And you know, it, it, you know, is a really, really big shock if he is playing, you know, calm, like not even like future base. Yeah. I mean, it could really, it could really, it could really alienate people, but I think that if the marketing is done right, then it really could make sense for people.

And people will have like an opportunity to sort of wrap their head around. Okay. My favorite artist is doing this. Why are they doing this? Is there a story like, can I, can I understand it? You know, am I going through that too? You know, am I like, am I going to dig this sound? Like, does it sound like them, you know, like letting the audience sort of follow you along in the journey, which is, I think why social media is so important is, you know, you can kind of talk to people directly versus just, you know, having a sound and then having a completely different sound on your next album.

You know, it’s, there’s, there’s no connection, you know, you’re hitting the nail on the head, like. I think PR and this is a lot, I think this is a big issue with a lot of bigger artists, especially bigger artists who are sick. Cause I know of bigger artists, huge fucking artists that everyone knows who they are, who are sick and tired of writing the shit that they’re writing right now.

I’ve like, I’ve heard through the grapevine. They, they don’t like it. They’re tired of it. They want to move on, do something different. That’s tough to do when you’ve reached that like pinnacle level. Um, you know, they think of some of the biggest artists you could think of that level. You it’s hard to do that John or change.

And I think the disconnect comes from when they’ve got these massive like record labels, backing them and these massive agencies and marketing companies. They’re so fixated on these different marketing campaigns, but behind those campaigns is just kind of this, I mean, all of their stuff is quality, but their ideas to reach the most amount of people as possible and try to suck those people in.

And when you’re, when you’re creating content and creating music to reach that amount of people, you don’t care about the message behind anything, right. You’re just trying to get shit out in front of people, try to get them hooked. If you get them hooked you one like that, you you’ve done your job. So when you’re at that level, there is this disconnect between the fan and the artist, because they’re so big and there’s no meaning behind anything that they’re doing.

And, and so I think this leads into a bigger point of messaging with a lot of. A lot of your marketing or promotion and like putting your story in front of people. Because if you put your story in front of people, what your experiences, why you might’ve wrote this specific track or things you’re going through, people can relate to that.

They can consume it, they can understand it. And they can reason with it, especially if you’re going through genre changes and you explain why you’re going through that stuff. Now, obviously there’s like, there’s ways to go about that where you’re just not like your social media account is your fucking diary.

I don’t think that’s that. That’s where that belongs. There’s a way to go about writing a story and your post about this track you’re promoting. But if that’s how you build your brand and that’s how you build what you’re doing, then it’s much easier to do, to test different genres, to be able to change things.

And people are more willing to understand that because they understand you, they know what you’re going through. They get the messaging, they get the story that you’re trying to tell them. They get the meaning behind everything. It just makes, it puts, it puts a real person behind what they’re trying to experience.

And I mean, that’s what music really is. It’s, it’s an experience you’re experiencing someone else’s emotions in the moment of what they’re writing. Um, you’re experiencing everything in that moment that you listen to something. So if you’re, if you’re putting real emotion into your music and what you’re feeling in the moment, You should reciprocate that with your promotion and with your marketing.

And like you said, if you, if it’s done well, it, I, it’s probably pretty easy to do something like a genre change or a rebrand if people understand who you are and what, what you do and why you’re doing things. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, I think that it’s, I, I, I don’t think that it’s difficult. I think you just, it just requires an explanation.

I mean, you don’t want to surprise, you don’t want to surprise people. Yes. Yeah. Totally. With your rebrand. I’m curious because rebranding is, there’s a lot to it. Like you said, there’s, you know, it’s, it’s a pretty big decision to make, especially for a bigger artists like yourself, where, I mean, at your peak with no anemia and you were getting.

Half a million monthly listeners on your Spotify profile. That’s like nothing to, you know, th that’s, that’s fucking huge for a lot of producers. So going through a rebrand of like, let me switch this, that there’s a lot, there’s a big process through that. So I’m curious, what were some of the biggest changes that you experienced?

Whether that’s, I mean, just simply going to a new audience and trying to market to that audience, what was like changing your name, like getting a new logo? What, what was the entire experience of, okay, I’m switching to this side project now. What did it cause you started new profiles from zero. Well, do you have to be honest?

It was fun. And I just, just making all new stuff, creating a whole new, you know, The art direction and just, you know, I mean, I, I remember I showed you, you like a few different, a few different D few different logos, and you helped me help me land on the one that I’ve gotten now, actually. And, uh, you know, just like I said, you know, the art direction, I found this phenomenal artist on Instagram named Keith West.

He goes by hang Fang and he does all my art and it’s just really cohesive. So, you know, I, I found that, like, I just, I never really had like a, like really cohesive art style for Noah Neiman, who was just like, whatever enhanced, you know, decided they wanted to do, which was cool. I mean, I guess it was sort of cohesive cause it was all enhanced, but you know, this is like, you know, personal to me, like I can talk to Keith and be like, Hey, you know, I want this, this, this and this.

And he’s like, no problem. You know? And like a week later I get something like completely just jaw-dropping. It’s it’s awesome. You know, so, so it’s just a lot of fun, like seeing that kind of stuff, like it’s like, it all feels new again, it’s sort of like a new relationship, you know, it’s always, it’s always a little exciting, you know, you can’t be too that the hunting and whatnot, you know, but right now, you know, I’m like, I feel like I’m a little bit past that, like, I’m, I’m like more comfortable now with what I’m doing and, you know, I’ve, I’ve sort of developed a sound a little bit.

I think, you know, like I said, the project is still pretty new. It’s it’s, you know, honestly, I guess I, you could probably could say it’s still in its infancy in terms of like popularity and whatnot, but I’ve just got so much music that, that is waiting to be released that it’s, you know, it’s just, it’s kind of like, kind of feel like Goku in a way, but, uh, in a, you know, I mean, like, it was, it’s also, it was like nice kind of like meeting new people in this sort of scene.

Like, like my current management, they’re just the nicest guys and, and it’s just. It’s really cool. And knowing them, you know, Justin and Robert and Zander and Katie, they are all just phenomenal people. I never really knew them until after COVID, you know, I think I reached out to them after. Yeah. Yeah. I reached out to them after COVID head and I was like, Hey, you know, my name is Noah Neiman.

I’m doing this thing with, with this new project called documentary on public law. And I think I reached out to Justin first and, and he’s like my main guy and just was like, yeah, I know who you are. And you know, I’ve, I’ve seen you around town, you know, that’s really cool that you’re doing this dubstep thing.

And I was like, yeah, I’m looking for a new management. And, you know, I, you know, I keep seeing your name pop up, you know? And so I just wondered if we, you know, you can, I could have a good conversation and, you know, one thing led to another, and now he’s got me on all these shows now and I’m playing festivals and stuff, and it’s just kind of nuts, you know?

And it all just kind of like happened really quickly. And, and I guess they just like, I mean, you know, I don’t know if everybody’s heard of this same, but it takes 10 years to be an overnight success. And I lived, I was, I’ve been literally doing it for like taking it serious. I’ve been doing, I’ve been doing it for God 20 plus years, but I’ve been taking it seriously for about 10 and now I just literally ran like a decade into the Noah Neiman project.

And it’s like really popping off for me. And I guess it’s just management change was a big, like I, yeah. Yeah. So like I had always like for me management, I guess always, and, and it like, technically this isn’t actually the way that I probably should be thinking about things, but management has always kind of also equated to a booking agent for me, because for me, like, I’m really like, I’m very.

And you wouldn’t get this for me. Like just kind of talking to me I guess, but, but I’m, I’m sort of like OCD, like I have to know everything about everything. So I’m very, very involved on the production and label side of things and, and you know, who are the writers that I want to work with and where is this record going to be released and how much am I going to be, you know, compensated for it and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And so I’ve cultivated like a very large catalog of, of, you know, people that I know in terms of, you know, writers and record labels and, you know, record label executives and other artists that are on those record labels. And so I’m, I’m covered on that side. And you know, what I really needed was somebody who could get me shows because I’m, I, you know, I’m on it.

You know, like I’m, I’m a doctor in during the day and then I’m writing music. When I can, and I don’t have enough time to go out to shows and meet people. You know, I just, you know, I hate saying that because it makes me sound like you also have a family though. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s just something, you know, so I’ve kind like so many things, you know, vying for my attention and time that like, I mean, I just, I cannot, by the end of the day, like right now, you know, it’s what, you know, almost 9, 15, 9, 10, right now we’re talking.

And like, I have been up since four, like I’ve been, I went to the gym, I went to, uh, I worked in my clinic. I finished a song. I, you know, took care of my kids. I put them to sleep. I haven’t even eaten dinner yet. I’ve had a glass of wine. I’ve had a glass of wine for dinner. So I am not like if it was Friday, I would not be going downtown and being like, you know, now I wouldn’t eat it.

Yeah, man. So, so like, what I needed was guys that can kind of like. You know, get me into the door, so to speak and they pull some strings for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, I was like, I, I, so I told Justin, I was like, Hey man, you know, I’ve done all this stuff. You know, I’ve toured with all across the United States.

I have written songs with rehab and tiger Lily and the chain smokers. And, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m good. You know, I’m, I’m good at what I do. What I need is somebody to do this for me. And he’s like, I can do that. You know, let me talk to my partners and, you know, whatever. And so he kind of, you know, hashed out the details and it’s just like a really, really, really like good fit, you know?

Cause like I’ve had managers in the past who are phenomenal people and they have a very extensive, very extensive networks and, and you know, one of them Gabby cock, Lonnie, who. Just an amazing person and an amazing manager, you know, she, she’s the one that hooked me up with rehab and the chain smokers, you know, and just, you know, she could get me so many things, but she was just wanting me to do a little bit more pop stuff.

And, you know, we’ve already talked about that. I was kind of like, not really feeling that. And so that led to a little bit of friction in terms of like how we wanted to take the pro, like what direction we want to take the project then. And so, you know, so we decided to part ways, and we’re still friends and we talk and, you know, she’s got kids, I’ve got kids and we kind of send pictures back and forth every now and then, although I need to do that, I haven’t spoken to her in a little bit, I guess, you know, you got busy or whatever, but, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so, you know, like I was never able to score like, uh, like. You know, stage presence. It was like that, that was the missing piece. You had the catalog, you had the production, you had, you checked all the boxes for an artist, but it was like the missing piece really was the being in front of a live audience.

Yeah. Yeah. And with tried tonal, like they like, again, how, you know, I’ve just, I’ve been so blessed to like meet all these amazing people in the industry. Like they took me on tour with them. I’ve I’ve I like my biggest show with them was probably like three or 4,000 people. I mean, it was like, it was so big.

Like it wasn’t a stadium, but the club was just so massive. I didn’t know where the back of the club was. Like I was looking at the bat. It was just like, it was just more and more people. Yeah. It was just like people after people, after people like rows and rows and rows of people and just like, you know, is it like, is it outdoors?

You know? So I mean like stuff like that was amazing, but like I said, you know, I’ve never really had anybody that could like get me my own shows and like get me on to like multiple festivals and that, and that’s what that, that is happening for me now. It’s all thanks to the right people, you know? And, and it’s, it’s just, you know, a lot of it’s luck, you know, meeting people at the right time, you know, and, but you know, a lot of it is like, you know, sure.

Well, give me, I guess a lot of it is like, you know, gumption, honestly, it’s just like, I saw this guy named Justin and I was like, he’s doing things. I need to talk to this guy, you know, luck plays into this conversation so fucking much, and being at the right place at the right time. And this is why I can’t stress enough for, I mean, you did, you paid your dues as a younger artist needing to meet the people that you need to meet and being at the right place.

Um, but this stress is just so much more to younger artists of why they should be going out, meeting people in their local scene and being friendly with people like this is, that’s how you get lucky by meeting the right person at the right fucking time. Yeah. Uh, you know, it’s funny that you mentioned that and you know, and I’m, I’m quite a bit older than, than probably the majority of your listeners, but you know, if you are in your early twenties or whatnot.

Yeah, man, go out because I was, this was a long time ago, but I was actually, I was reading a magazine about production and I think I, I. I don’t know if it was this guy that I’m going to say, or if somebody else, but I remember reading this article and I think it was Eddie tonic, who is, I believe he is a house kind of techno DJ out of Germany.

And funny enough, he’s actually a dentist. So, you know, EDM producers more than you would think, but, you know, he’s like really, he was, he was really successful, but he’s like, I guess I, I dunno if it was him or not, but he’s had younger get the magazine interview right. Asked him, you know, so, so for younger artists, what, what advice do you have to say to get to the point that you’re at?

And he’s like go out and go to parties, like sitting at home and your bedroom writing music, like that’s cool, but you’re going to always be sitting at home. In your bedroom, writing music that is all you’re ever going to do. If you don’t get out there and meet people. And you know, like I’ve had to do my fair share of that, you know, I’ve, I’ve met, you know, Andrew Parsons.

I met him, you know, at a party and he just took, I don’t know what, like he was no, Andrew Parsons is a big guy here in the local Austin scene who used to have the club kingdom. And now they move to what’s the new club that they opened up and his wife Concourse. Yeah, the Concourse, um, they’re wildly fucking successful in the local scene of running big fucking shows.

The biggest artists you could possibly think of daytime. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I mean, like he, he, I don’t know what. Made him do this, but he just, I don’t know why he just, he just gave me show after show, after show, after show. And I guess, like, he must’ve just liked what I could do or whatnot. I don’t know what, but, you know, so that kind of like pumped me up in a local scene.

And then, you know, that helped me sort of explode onto the, you know, more like regional scene. And then, you know, like I said, once I got to know Trent try tonal, it was more national. Yeah. I mean, it’s, you really, you really do have to get out there and meet people. I mean, even if it’s just like on social media, like you, you, you, you, you did that with me.

Yeah, that’s literally how we’re having this conversation right now. As I saw you at a show plant opening for dry tonal, and I sent you a message on Facebook and that’s literally all it takes, like just sending a message and being, I li I wish I could pull up the message I sent you. It was something along the lines of do.

I just saw you up open up for tri tonal. You’re fucking incredible. Holy shit. And then you sent me a message and I was like, oh my God, you applying. And I was just like, Hey, I’m a producer. Can I just send you stuff for feedback? And you’re like, sure, I do. I give feedback to anyone. So I was like, oh my God.

Um, yeah, it’s funny though. I mean, like eat, cause you know, some of these like, like somebody has really been guys, you know, they had like a message, like, like their messages like that, like, you know, a thousand of them a day. And so it’s hard to, it’s hard to like, you know, or, or they might be strategic about yeah, I suppose.

So I could, I mean, I could have messaged tritones, but I knew that they weren’t going to fucking message me like they weren’t. And so it was much easier to go, will know, is fucking sick. Oh my God. I found his profile. I can message him. And it’s much easier to message those types of people and those, those, those are still much bigger than I ever was, but, uh, but they’re still within reach.

Yeah. And you know, I mean, like, it could also just be like the guy’s a Dick or something. Yeah. You know, like for me, like, I, like, it might take me a while to get back to you, but I do try to get back to every single person that messages me and the glitter, literally every single person that messages me because, you know, I like, for me personally, I know that I was in that position.

You know, uh, a long time ago, I was like, you know, I was wanting to talk to, you know, an artist and it always sort of like, kind of like made me feel bad if I didn’t get an answer or something like that. And so I just, I don’t like, you know, especially if it’s a kid, especially, you know, just to pick up like a really young kid, I’m just like, yeah, man, just, just send me whatever, you know, like I might, um, I might not get back to them right away.

And you know, if they send me a song, I might not be able to listen to it, you know, that day or whatever, but like a week later or like, you know, whatever. I mean, if you, if you’ve sent me a message and I don’t get back to you, send me another message. I’m not going to be a Dick to you. I’m going to be like, fuck off.

I know that. I know. Yeah. Your message. And let me know that you’re trying to talk to Noah. Yeah. I mean, cause you know, if you send me a message and I’m like, Hey man, yeah, I’ll listen to this and then I don’t get back to you. It’s probably just, I mean, I might’ve forgotten. Cause like I said, I’m I get a lot of messages was like that too.

So, you know, I am happy to listen to. But it’s just, you know, I’ve talked about this endlessly on the podcast too, is like, if you don’t get a response follow up, like you got to fucking follow up. I’ve talked to you about that too with like labels. Like you gotta fucking fall. If you don’t have a response.

Well, did you follow up if it’s been four weeks? Oh, no, I didn’t. Well, did you try, like try following up and then if I follow up in a week? Yeah. Oh, but I mean, like, I, you know, cause I mean like my first release on revealed records, it took them three weeks to get back to me. I literally just had a buddy who confer he’s he sent some tracks out on label radar and the, he sent it out like four or five weeks ago or something like that.

One label got back to him and he approved it and said, yes, let’s sign it. And literally a day after a bigger label responded and wanted to sign it and buddy’s already approved the other one. And I was like, well, did you follow up? And he said, no. And I was like, you should have been following up. Like if you would’ve just followed up and reached out to him and been like, Hey, I have this other label was already talking to him for a week.

So he could have said, Hey, this other labels interested, are you guys still interested? And that’s all you need to say. And if you don’t get a response, then you’ve, you’ve done your due diligence due diligence. Right. You you’ve, you’ve done what you needed to do. It’s out of your hands. And if you approve this and they get back to you later, that’s on the label.

That’s not on you, but if you don’t follow up, it’s all on you, you fucked up and you should have followed up. Yeah. Yeah, man. I mean that, I followed up with reveal twice and I didn’t hear a thing back. And then three weeks later, I just out of the blue randomly, I remember I was upstairs in my house and I was, I remember getting the email and I was like, what the hell is this?

And then, you know, and then it just like, I texted the singer and it was Anna Yvette. And I was like, oh my God revealed once our song. And she’s like, oh my God reveal wants our song. Like, it was just, it was, it was, it was amazing. So you, it was really cool. And then, you know, it, that song did really well and people loved it and it got played like multiple times in the south is a lot of fun, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

Get, get, get in touch with people. Definitely get in touch with people. Follow up. W we, we need to start wrapping it up here, but before we do that, there are a couple of things that I noticed. Uh, when you rebranded that, I felt like you were doing before you weren’t doing before with your no Neiman name.

Um, and this is something that I’ve been talking about religiously for probably the past two months or so on the podcast. Um, but you ha it, it seemed like you had some marketing changes with your new social media accounts, and it seemed like you were starting to actually engage more with the community that you were trained to be a part of far more than you were before with just your Noah Neiman project.

I saw you constantly commenting on other people’s posts, um, and just engaging with other people. Do you think that’s really helped you out with getting a bigger audience and, uh, getting people to actually engage with your content? Yeah, I think that, I mean, for me, at least it was sort of a learning curve as to, you know, how I needed to go about things.

So. Like on, on Facebook, I am lucky enough to have been verified. How am I know an even page? And so, you know, I’ve got that blue check and when you comment on something, even if it’s like another, if it’s on another artist saying, or like IGN or something like that, or like whatever, any, any page, your comment will show up at the top of the comment section, or at least like one of the first few that show up.

So you will get much more visibility. And so like engaging with other pages and, you know, kind of like gets you more noticed by other people who have no idea who you might be. I’m gonna be like, oh, who’s this guy, you know, there’s a blue check. Oh, he’s he must be somebody important or something like that.

Or, or he must be somebody, you know, that Facebook thinks is important at least. And they’ll go check your stuff out. And they’re like, oh, all right, this is actually something that I have. So then they’ll follow your page and so on and so forth. I didn’t, I wasn’t doing that with the Noah Nima. So I was very much of the, I like the thought process of was, you know, if I make the music, people will come if you build.

Yeah, yeah. That kind of thing. You know, I was just like, I was like, no, it’s not. And it’s very unfortunate, but that’s just sort of the way it is. I mean, like you can kind of be mounted. The I’m so happy. You’re mentioning this because I’ve mentioned it so many times on the podcast. Yeah. I mean, he killed it.

No, one’s going to fucking come in. You’re you’re a Testament to that because you have legit tracks signed a legit labels with legit streams, legit, monthly listers with no anemia and you built it, but no one was fucking coming. Yeah. It’s it’s I mean, it’s, it’s sort of like, you know, you really need to show people what it is, because like, you know, it’s like, you know, you hear a sound on the radio and it could be like the most garbage crap in the world, but you hear it enough.

And I’m like, oh, okay. I like it. Like, like a lot of Vici song, you know? Like everybody hated it when I first came out. Everybody talking about levels. No, no, no, no. His stuff has the most pocket. Wow. Wake me up. Oh yes. Yay. He played that at ultra and everybody was like, wow. It’s fricking nothing. It was always like cowboy had memes and everything like that.

And you just, he like, he was, he was in, you know, they just kept on putting it in front of people and you know, more and more people were like, okay, this is, this is cool. I love his, that, you know, Vichy is now my, my wife’s favorite DJ fuck. And a guy’s dead rip. You know, he is. I mean, like I said, you know, I mean, I guess, you know, he just, he had the bravery to do something new, but it was like, you know, it was marketed really well.

You know, they just like, they did it really well. You know? So you could write the best song in the history of music as a bedroom producer, and nobody’s going to care because nobody’s going to hear it. You know, you, you’re not, you’re not in front of enough people. You know, like, I mean, he got to get out there and you have to meet people or, you know, like at least, you know, you don’t have to get out there, but I used to like message the right people and like maybe offer the offer to take them to dinner, or at least to buy him a cup of coffee or someone then just like, show them who you are, you know, if they don’t like you then whatever, but maybe they do like you and maybe they take you under their wing, like Andrew did with me.

And maybe you become somebody, you know, I think that’s really, that’s really an important thing to take away is, is, you know, like the music in the music industry is secondary. It is all about who, you know, and your image and your marketing and that kind of thing, because. And I’ve said this in other interviews before, like the bare minimum that you have to do to be a successful musician.

This is the very, very, like bottom of the barrel bare minimum that you have to do is write phenomenal music. Your music has to stand out and be kick ass and the production has to be on point. It like, you cannot be making mistakes. It has to be perfect. That’s the bare minimum that then you take that to all these other people.

You, you know, you build a machine, a machine, you know, but if you’re just riding tracks, you know, and you’re not taking it seriously, or you’re not taking it seriously enough. And you know, they’re like, they’re pretty good, but you know, like they’re like, you know, whatever, that’s not going to get you anywhere, you know?

So it’s gotta be bad-ass tracks that you take to. The next level. Yeah, I agree. And even just, I mean, there’s a lot of people who don’t write the best music, but know the right people and that gets them in front of the, in front of enough people to, so I think this combination of like, of an audience engagement mixed with the people that, you know, and having just outstanding fucking music really is, it’s like the trifecta of everything that you need.

Um, cause knowing the right people, you’re going to be able to get the right marketing. You’re going to be able to get signed to the right labels. You’re, you’re going to be able to do all the things that you want to do. You’re going to be able to play all the shows you want and play. That’s just knowing the right people.

And that’s like already fucking 70% of everything you need. And the other thing you need to know you need is to show people that you’re a real fucking person and that you give a shit. And then the music speaks for itself. Right? Right. The music. Yeah. The definitely the music definitely does speak for itself.

I mean, it’s just, but like, you know, like I said, it’s a sad state of affairs, but that’s just the way things are. And your Gigi has had to get used to that. You being around it. I saw a post the other today, actually on Facebook by a guy who’s kind of coming up. It doesn’t ride the best music, but just knows a lot of people and is really popular in any, is his skills on the decks are, are dope.

Like, like great. A but he posted, he was like, you know, it’s really sad that people can just buy their way into the, like buy their way to the top. And I’m just like, man, The people who have been doing that since the Dawn of time, this is, this is the Dawn of money. That’s, that’s just the way things are.

It’s, you know, it, it might suck, but you need to get used to it. This is the industry. This is what I’ve been telling people from. The minute I started the podcast is if you don’t like that, don’t fucking be in this industry, get the fuck out because what are you building? You’re going to be horribly fucking disappointed when he come to the realization that this is what it’s like.

Um, now, unless again, if you have enough money to change that, Well, most of you don’t most of us won’t, that was kind of the realization when I F when I met you. And I started talking to you when I met you in, sir, and I was starting to talk to you. All I wanted to do was be a big producer. I just wanted to produce music.

I wanted to tour. I wanted to do all of that shit. And then I got a little, a little more information from you about what the industry is like, and that started the gears started fucking turning. And I started to realize, you know, I don’t think I want to be that I don’t want to be that person. Like, I don’t want to be the person with hundreds of thousands of fans, like with this big pressure and responsibility to be constantly putting out great shit.

I like, I, there, there are certain things I want to do my life that I don’t feel like I would be able to I’d have to choose certain things over music and fans and, and it just wasn’t worth it. It wasn’t worth dealing with all that. And that’s where I found the outlet of like mixing and mastering, oh shit.

I can still work in the industry. I can still work with artists. I can still work with great music. I can still put my touch and my flavor on things, but I don’t have to be that person constantly writing and putting things out and trying to market to fans and touring and keeping up with family. Like I don’t have to do all of that.

I can still scratch the itch that I want to scratch and, uh, do the things I want to do and be successful and still have the things I want to do personally, which was like, perfect. And I think this is a really important thing that a lot of producers need to realize, and this is why I started the podcast was, you know, a lot of it does kind of is kind of based off of the, what I’ve learned from you, by learning about what the industry is really like.

And I wanted to share that message with other producers and let them know that like you can come to this realization and realized I don’t want to be an artist. There’s still a path like right there. So you can still build a business within this industry. That’s not directly related with just producing music and building a fan base and touring and still love what you’re doing and be involved.

There’s still a way to do that. Um, but then also, you know, if you, there’s a lot of people who listen to this that want to do that, and that’s what this outlets for. Um, Noah let’s go on. I was just going to say, I, I, I think that that what you just led into right there could be an entirely other, uh, Italian separate episodes.

But yeah, I think that, I think it’s very possible for people to do what they want to do. You just have to realize that what you want to do is either going to take a lot of sacrifice or may not be as glamorous as you, as you think a hundred percent. Yeah, I agree. Let’s wrap it up there, Noah. Um, yeah, I’ll probably have to bring you on for another episode.

We can talk about, I’m happy to come on, man. Um, go ahead and just plug your stuff, man. What have you got going on? I know you had a huge fucking release a couple of weeks ago. This episode is going to be coming out in probably three or four weeks. So you know, that release is going to be at the tail end of all the promo and all that.

But, um, I don’t know if you want to plug that or stuff that you’ve got coming out. I mean, I’ll let you know this episodes definitely coming out on the, let me see here. It’s going to be May 13th. So I don’t know if you have any releases or shows coming up. I don’t know if the life of the big artists they never know.

Yeah, man, just, I guess I’ll plug my, my social media. Just, just follow me on, on, I mean, I’m only, I’m mainly on Instagram and Facebook, mainly Instagram, honestly, Facebook too. Let’s get Facebook, you know? Yeah. Just, just follow me on those two things. You know, I really kind of just try and focus on those two, but I, everything that’s coming out will, will be announced on, on those social media outlets.

You know? So if you, if, if you’re listening to this podcast at a certain. Head on over there. I’d say, you know, at Dr. Neiman on, on Instagram doctor spelled out to doc TLR and you know what, I don’t know what the shortcut to my Facebook is anymore because I just changed it. But yeah, just, just look up Dr.

Neiman on Facebook. You’ll you’ll find me. Yeah. You spell out doc. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dr. MEI, M a N you’ll find me. And like I said, Hey, it’s really easy to find me on Instagram and my Instagram’s log. It’s linked to my Facebook. So yeah. So, well, thanks so much, man. I really appreciate you bringing me on, you know, it’s a lot of fun talking.

It’s always fun talking to you top golf. I’ll call it some fucking runs, dude. I haven’t been in the gym in a while. Oh God. Oh Jan. Yeah, I remember I was, I was pushing you, us pushing you you’re here. You were doing like, like 1 55 on the bench. I don’t think I was doing more than that. 180 4. I think I got up to, I was definitely maxing.

Oh, I think I might’ve maxed at 180 5. I was getting up to like constant reps at like 1 65. It was, yeah, we were, we were, we were going, man. We were, we were, as Arnold would say planting. We’re going to be starting from scratch again, dude. I know God. Oh man. Anyways, Noah, thank you so much. I appreciate you taking some time, man.

Thank you. Everyone had to NBS audio.com/episode 79. I’ll have all the show notes there. Um, all of NOAA’s socials will be there. So if you guys want to go follow them and everything that we talked about, but I’ll see you guys next time. Take care. .

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