The thing about ads, actually, let’s start with content creation when you’re creating content, your planting seeds for fruit that you can pick later, the fruit is going to be the income that you make, , so that you can be livable. So as you’re creating content and putting content out there, you’re planting seeds, you’re nurturing your audience.

You’re watering that plant until one day, it’s going to be a big fruit tree and it’s going to blossom and you can pick all of that fruit from it. It’s going to be very ripe. One day takes a long time, though, if you’ve, if anyone’s grown a tree, it’ll take you 15, 20 years before you get any of that fruit.

It’s not to say it takes 15 or 20 years when you’re creating content. Usually it’s a couple of years, but it’s a long time. There’s a lot of time that you have to spend nurturing audiences, constantly creating hours, thousands of hours. Eventually it will pay off if you’re consistent. The thing about ads is ads is like, well, I don’t want to spend the time growing a fucking fruit tree cause I’m going to starve to death.

Why don’t I go down to the grocery store? And I pick up some fruit there cost me a couple of dollars, but I can have an apple right now and I can eat it right now. It’s exactly what an ad is. You’re bypassing the need to fertilize a tree to water it, to make sure it gets enough sunlight. And to grow it over time.

Instead, you can just pay a couple of dollars now and go pick the right fruit, right.

All right. What is up? Everyone? Welcome back to a brand new episode of electronic dance money. I am your host Christian Kasisto, and we’re going to be hanging out today with Steve, from John donkey and the dog jokey podcast. Oh, you just want to go Dodd junkie now? No more EDM for this job ducky. I said, did I say Jada?

I’m keeping that in the show. I’m keeping the show. That’s hilarious. Dodd junkie. It might be my voice. Maybe you heard by my voice is insanely raspy. I was literally just telling you about how, , Friday and Saturday, I went to the Texas stars games, both games, and I lost my mind. First game. I was definitely loud talking a lot of shit to the team.

Second game, I got even more rowdy and I was up in the box seats, yelling, trying to yell at players from the Fox eats, just shouting as loud as I can. So I completely lost my voice yesterday, still recovering today. But, , Steve, how you doing, man? I’m doing good too, but I know about losing your voice because I recently became a singer in a pop punk band and.

Yeah, the voice is a delicate thing. You, you never really, you don’t really realize how delicate it is until you’re like, if you do do like interviews or long format talking stuff, or if you’re yelling at a game, you lose your voice so easily. And it’s not even something you realize in the moment and the moment it’s fine.

And then the next day you’re like, oh wow. I actually like ripped my vocal chords higher. True. You don’t realize. Because I sang really hard. And then we brought people to come hear us. Cause we thought we sounded good the day before. And my voice was gone for the next day. Oh God. Do you use like vocal warmups at least?

I, I don’t. I just I’m crazy like that. Well, there you go. That’s probably your issue. Maybe incorporate some, I feel like it, no one likes to do that exercise. I do jujitsu and like, I fucking hate stretching, but I need to stretch and I experience horrible injuries all the time because I don’t stretch. So one day I’m going to learn my, learn my lesson.

But, , for those of you who don’t know which most of you should, I’ve already talked about before, but, , I was a guest on your podcast, the EDM producer podcast, which has been a while for been around for awhile. And you basically just interview other individuals, professionals within the industry, more focused on the artist side.

But, , that’s probably, I think most of my audience probably knows who you are. So if I just mentioned the show. , they’re going to be comfortable with you and trust you. So it’s going to be a fun, I’m really excited for this topic, but, , yeah, I mean, getting into that, we’re going to be kind of talking about more sales funnel stuff, which luckily my audience has had introduction to that.

, but we’re going to be focusing more on the Facebook ad side because you are, I would say you’re a professional there, you know, how to set up a pretty successful Facebook ad. I know my way around ads. So this is going to be like, and I haven’t done a fully fledged out episode on Facebook ads for.

Producers. So I think this is going to be a really good opportunity for us to kind of dissect what a successful ad looks like, how to set that up, what to do for target audience research and setting up a sales funnel for your ad, that converts on a landing page. Cause that’s really what it’s all about.

You need to make sure you have a sales funnel set up and that ad flows into that. So we’re going to be talking a little bit about that, , in, in a few minutes, but before we go there for anyone who doesn’t know who you are, , would you mind just kind of giving us your introduction, your background as to who you are, how you got involved in electronic music, and then also get into some of the marketing stuff because you are a marketing wizard.

Oh, thanks, dude. I appreciate that. I eat a whole bunch of sweet potatoes and rice before this. So my throat’s a little clogged up and he we’re on the same boat. , I’m Steve Gerbino. I do a show called the EDM producer podcast and you know, I have to thank you because. That that show was, I lost enthusiasm for it.

, and, and so I’ve just been doing it on and off for the past few years. But when I was doing it strong, we got over a hundred episodes and it was really doing well. And I actually can’t remember what happened, but I stopped. , you know, you reaching out to me, helped me out. You rekindled me. I thank you for that.

And I’m starting to do the show again. We got a couple of more episodes in the can. Awesome. Good. I’m happy to hear that. Thanks. , you know, I started out as a musician teenager. I’m a little older than probably your audience. I don’t, I don’t know, I watched MTV when it first came out and there was playing guitars on there and they were rocking and they had all these chicks and parties and I’m I’m.

I want to do that. So I learned how to play guitar when I was a kid, never touched really much electronic stuff. And then about 12 years ago, I moved down to Florida and I got Sirius XM radio in my. And there’s a station called BPM that used to be on there. It might, I don’t, I don’t have XM anymore. Oh, it’s still okay.

Ex BPM was, I turned it on and a VT levels was started coming on and I’m like, this is amazing. Like, this is the music I was like born to hear and born, to create. And I went just all out. Like I bought every mini controller in the store and I bought a machine without even knowing what it was. And, uh, I started playing with all these toys , I had a lot of fun and got pretty good at it.

And I never really, you know, gave like, gave it a shot, being an artist and really putting a lot of stuff out there. But I, I went up on audio jungle. I put a bunch of stuff on there and I just, I love starting songs. Like I’ll sit in front of my doll and like create 10, eight bar loop and just like, go, oh, that’s great.

I’m pretty good. And then never finish it. So cosmos producers, that’s like 90% of it. But I got good at doing that. And I learned all the plugins and I, I became a dog junkie. I actually got addicted to not just making the music, but playing with the toys that create the music. Like, I love dolls. Like, like you say, Eddie van Halen probably has 10 20 guitars that are like his babies.

And he plays like, my dolls are my instrument. If I feel like reason, one day I’ll turn on reason. If I feel like bit wig, I play bit wig. I’m like, all right, Cubase 12 came out. Just what does it look like? Like I have to know this stuff. I don’t know why I have this passion. It might just be all the Blinky lights and colors, but it actually helped me become a better producer because I can use all the dolls.

But my favorite is studio one. That’s my main production. I love it. Yeah. Cubase was my main one, which I’m pretty sure the studio one team broke off from Steinberg, like six or seven years ago. Some like maybe a little bit longer. I can’t remember. Yeah. And that’s what they came up with studio one and studio one is very similar to Cubase.

I feel like studio, one’s kind of a combination of Cubase and pro tools a little bit. Like they kind of have a little bit of the same. Some, like, I feel like the color scheme and layout of the whole doll looks like Cubase, but some of there’s some there, it looks like there’s some inspiration from pro tools as well.

But, , yeah, I’ve heard, I’ve heard studio one is great, but Cubase has been my main one for a while and I think I’m slowly switching over to Ableton. Yeah. I’m starting to really love Ableton. Kidding. I, I never, I play with Ableton and I used it for live stuff cause it’s Ableton live and that’s what it was meant for it originally created for, and it’s great at that, , yeah, studio one studio one was like my first doll after garage band because it came with an interface.

I had no idea what it. And it turned out to like, so after I used it, I go, wow, this is a pretty good music software, like music recording software. I’m like, I wonder what the other ones were like. So I started trying all the other ones, like logic and Cubase and all of them. And I’m like, wow, studio. One’s still my favorite.

I still think it’s, it’s the best one for me. I still do all my podcast recordings in Cubase. I don’t know what, like I’m using Ableton a lot more, but there’s something that just pulls me back to Cubase every time. I’m just, I don’t know what it is. I think it’s just, I’ve been using it for so long. I started with logic and then I switched to PC and I was like, well, I can’t let use logic.

Let me try out Cubase. And my mentors at the time were huge on Cubase. They like get it. And so I just kind of stuck with that, but there’s still something that like, even when I’m working in able to, a lot of the times I’m working with clients, I’m working enabled. , but every time I’m like, I wish I could just be in cube cause I could, I it’s just that the workflow for Cubase for me is just it’s every, every I feel like everything’s right where it needs to be.

Yeah. Yeah. I see what you’re saying. That’s how I feel too about my dolls that I liked. , but there’s also some warm, fuzzy feeling you get about your favorite doll. It’s just that any need that to create music, I think. Cause it’s that, that wavelength you need to be on to. Yeah. It’s like home base. It’s like your home, it’s where you’re most comfortable and you can create the things that you want to create.

You can be the most vulnerable in them and , just, you know, express yourself how you want and the best way possible. And that’s kind of what it’s like when you go to a different dye, you’re like, oh, this is like, The bad part of the neighborhood. I don’t like being weird. You’re like out of your comfort zone and it’s just, it’s very clunky and just doesn’t feel right.

And then you get in your diet. It’s like, oh yeah, I can relax. Yeah. It’s true. That’s exactly what it feels like. In fact, I’m the freak because no, I haven’t met anybody else who likes using another doll than their favorite doll. And it’s always the same. They’re like, yeah, I learned enough on one. Why would I want to learn enough on the other?

And I go, I don’t know. I do. I don’t know why, but I’ll tell you what, I’ll tell you one good thing about personas too. And that your listeners might want to try this. I went on their website personas website and they have a section for events. And before Corona, they were trying to do live events like meetups, like little meetups, all around the world and then Corona hits.

So they, they all went online, but you can go on personas website and originate, like tell them, like, I want to do a meetup in and whatever your town is. Like I was in Florida and there’s a, there was a meetup in Florida and I emailed him. I said, I would like to do one and like Clearwater and they go, well, we already have one in Tampa, which is like right down the street.

So I talked to the guy that was running that and he, he let me run it from there, from now on. So now, you know, you got this like connection to personas. And I talked to Gregor on email that the guy does all the personas videos. And it’s fun. You have all these people who use the same dog as you, , in a little meetup once a month.

And, you know, you could run it, you can be the in-charge of it. So if anybody’s wanting to do that, that was really cool, fun thing I did with them. , it’s great. It’s great. Cause they, you know, you get hooked up with, , a major doll company and you know, it’s a fun thing to talk to everybody about it’s yeah.

100% great networking place, but then also you getting, getting connected to a big music company like that can like, not just like open up some doors where you could present potentially move, move up somewhere, you know, become a part of the company, but also. I don’t maybe sponsorship isn’t the right word, but they might send you some stuff.

They might send you some gear. They might send you, Hey, you want to try out the new beta version for this? You know, there there’s, there’s a lot of really cool opportunities that can come along with running somebody, especially if you’re doing it for a while. And like you have a good repertoire and you’re building an actual community for them.

It’s a lot of that carries a lot of weight. , you could throw that on a resume. I mean, like that’s legit stuff, but let’s hear a little bit about your marketing background because you have a very interesting marketing background because it’s not in the space of music, but again, I don’t want us sway what we’re going to be talking about today.

Like, you can’t apply it to music because, , you, 100%, the thing about marketing is it’s kind of a universal language. You can, if you know how to market one thing, you often likely can market another thing, you know, obviously price fluctuations. A thousand dollars product sells differently than a $10 product.

That’s kind of the big difference there, or a service sells differently than a physical product does, but we can kind of get into those weeds later. But tell us a little bit more about your marketing background and how you got the knowledge that you have with Facebook ads. Okay. Yeah. And marketing does have fundamentals that are like, like almost scientific truths that you can apply.

But then on the other end of the spectrum, marketing has stuff that even the pros, like I got a job at like a professional marketing agency a little while ago, because I go, I want to see how the pros do it. And I got there and I’m like, they, they, they apply all the fundamentals, but there’s no set in stone way to market anything.

It’s lot of trial and error. But if, you know, if you you’re pointed in the right direction, you usually hit the target eventually, but it’s not an exact science. Anyway, I got into marketing back when, I was making almost no money at this. And the internet had just like calm out, kind of, and started flowing and rolling.

E-bay was getting big. And I went on, I saw an ad for like, make lots of money on eBay, but not selling eBay products, using this different method called affiliate sales, which we could talk about. , I looked into that and what people were doing when they were putting links on the, about me page of their E-bay listing and sending them somewhere else to buy something.

And they would just, they had these tricks of getting people to go to your about me page because you couldn’t put links to sell stuff in your listing. You could only put links to sell or to other websites in your about me page. That was my first introduction to internet marketing. And if anybody doesn’t know what affiliate marketing is, it’s just means you’re selling other people’s stuff.

So you don’t have to have any inventory. You send people to a site. They, if they buy something on that site, you get a cut. That’s all. So I was like, let me try that. And I tried it and like the first day I made a sale, I didn’t make yourself after that at all. But first day I did and I’m like, oh my God, this stuff works.

And then I started buying more eBooks about this stuff, because even back then, when you buy one ebook, now you’re on like a mailing list and then they share their lists. And do you get emails from everybody? And I remember this woman, Rosalind Gardner was selling this book of how to make she put this number, like how to make $284,000 a year selling other people’s stuff.

And I got into that and I started doing this affiliate marketing, and then Google ads just came out back then. I was spending $10 every time someone are 10 cents. It’s tagged $10 now, but I was spending 10 cents or between five and 10 cents a click. And I was selling ads for people to go to a website and buy gold for a game called EverQuest.

Oh, yeah, I know about EverQuest and then also characters that were buying characters in EverQuest for like six or $700. And I was getting 10%. I was like looking at my sales and I’m like, oh, 60 bucks, boom, 50 bucks, boom. This guy bought a bunch of gold, 20 bucks. Boom. And it would just like make between a hundred, couple hundred bucks a day doing that.

And I’m like, all right, this is way too easy. And that’s, that’s when I caught the bug of like, the internet is not a physical object. It’s like zeros. Well, I guess it is physical to a certain degree, but it’s zeros and ones that move at the speed of light essentially. And I’m like, all right, I don’t have any products.

I don’t have any business background. I don’t know how to sell, but I’m making money with this internet. So that’s when I got hooked. And I realized that as these platforms like Google ads and Facebook ads got bigger just from my little taste of Google ads back then, I knew that like, if I wanted to market any.

I wanted to do it online and I wanted to use one of these systems. And now they’ve just turned into the best, like most powerful marketing systems that have ever existed on the planet. it’s the, the, your ability to within 10 minutes, be able to get a product in front of thousands of people that you’ve never met before for pennies, sometimes, maybe dollars, , but not that much.

And if done well, you can actually make. It’s like nothing else you’ve ever seen before. I’m I will say I’m extremely jealous that you, again, you’re paying pennies for clicks on Google ads because I’m paying like, I mean, my lowest, my lowest cost per click on Google ads now is maybe around two 50 ish, $2.

It’s like it’s that’s, which isn’t bad. I could be better, but, , that’s not bad for my market, but, , the, the heydays of pennies per clicks for Google ads, ah, I just wish I wish I was back in those. I know, dude, it did trust me. It didn’t last long before people caught on, but you have to ride those waves.

If you’re on that wave, it’s a good deal. But you know, Tik TOK ads are popping up now and different sites are providing different advertising platforms. They’re not as big and as powerful as Google and Facebook yet, but who knows what the next one will be. So there is some cheap stuff out there. And, and you know what, though, as the game became.

The other side of the coin became more vital, which is how to help you sell something. Like anybody can put an ad and send somebody to a webpage. And that’s, that’s the realization I’ve had recently, meaning a couple years ago, like I can run ads, but they’re so expensive now that I’m going to lose money.

So how are people making money with ads? Because if you look at your Facebook feed, you’re going to see people’s ads that just keep coming up and coming up and coming up and they’re spending these people are spending lots of money. How are they doing it? It’s because they know how to sell. They know what to do when somebody clicks the ad and lands on the next page, they know exactly what to do.

So I spent the last couple of years trying to figure out exactly what to do. And I’m a musician. I’m not a marketer. I don’t really, I don’t really like it if I don’t have to do it, but for me in my mind to go, I, I have to learn this stuff because it’s that important made me, gave me enough drive to figure it out to a, to a pretty good degree.

And. Again, it comes down to fundamentals when you learn them, the sales stuff to sales has fundamentals, just like marketing does. And when you learn that, why you have a one-two punch of marketing and sales, meaning like you have an ad and it goes to a landing page and they work together and you know exactly the right things to do with each one.

, one of the tips I could give, cause I can’t basically explain everything I learned cause I’ve read books where they stopped, but we talked about it. When you went on my podcast, I highly recommend everybody buy a book called dotcom secrets by Russell Brunson. That is like my Bible for the whole thing for marketing and sales.

And it will allow you to take any product you have in mind, whether it be your music, t-shirts anything. And you’ll know what to do with you’ll know how to sell it and make money. This is probably the third, no second time, I guess this would technically be the third time that this book has been referred on the podcast.

So those of you who have not got it yet, pick it up. Like, I mean, why we’ve had a white Christianson on from Don nation twice and in both episodes, which I’ll put in the show notes, , we talked about some sales funnel stuff and he could not recommend Russell Brunson’s book.com secrets more like it’s, it is the Bible for selling stuff online.

So if you have not gotten that, definitely go pick that up because it’s. It’s 100% a great guide for your introduction. And then he has, one click away. I think it says his funnel, , course program thing. It’s like 30 days for a hundred dollars, I think funnel challenge or something like that one.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s B I think it basically takes the fundamentals of, , dot com secrets and make sure it basically makes sure that you apply them in real world scenarios. And I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you most of these internet gurus, if they’re selling a book or a low priced service, it usually has most of their secrets in it, but they know you’re not going to read the damn thing.

So they have coaching after that and masterminds, after that to apply what’s in the. And it’s basically what’s in the book. So you can very much get for an under a hundred bucks, buy, buy like 20 books and have like a full like master degree education and what you need to do. Yeah. 100%, especially with business.

Here’s the thing, like one of the issues with a lot of people and they, they say they’re going to college for marketing or business. It’s, you’re going to learn some stuff. It’s not that you’re not gonna learn things, but the issue is most of those professors are not, they’re not in the real world selling things.

They’re not creating sales funnels. They can teach you stuff from a. But when’s the last time they apply to anything that they’re actually teaching. Like th the, the key thing about marketing and business is about applying it’s about testing and trying things out and finding what works. You’re throwing spaghetti at the wall, and you’re seeing what sticks and whatever sticks is, what you can start to fully implement and start to sell things.

, so you’ve been talking about couple of things. You’ve been talking about marketing and then sales and how, , it seems like sales and marketing are separate. So I I’d like to kind of talk a little bit more about that. When you’re talking about marketing, are you talking about the soul, the source at which people find you?

So if they find you through an ad or if they find you through a referral source, would that be considered the marketing part? And then once they’re actually within your sales funnel itself, that’s where, when you’re actually selling them. Yeah. Marketing is doing something to entice somebody. To become interested in you.

, you, you do something that makes them interested in you. Would you say that marketing is a part of that sales funnel is all at all, like maybe the top of the funnel where people actually find you and then you, you follow up with whatever the middle of the funnel is as they kind of move down. Yeah. It, I think it’s kind of like a blurred line when they intersect between marketing and sales.

There’s no like hard cut, but I guess sales is when you start taking this position, like you’re trying to do something now to give, for them to give you money, you’re trading some sort of service or product. You’re getting dollars from them and you’re giving them something in return, but more so you’re convincing them to open their wallet.

That’s like, yeah, I like, I like that term a lot. And this could also, you know, I think it’s, it’s, it’s important to also, and this is, we have these in the show notes for later on, but we can totally bring it up now to. It’s also very important to you. Don’t need to just get dollars. You can see, you can really sell someone later on.

You can sell someone on a page and collect an email, and that has a dollar value to it. Like the, you can put a dollar value on an email, especially a, someone who’s highly targeted, like your target audience that is looking at your page. If you’re trying to get an email from them, you could, I it’s insane how much money you could put just on that single email, if they’re actually going to buy your products.

So if you’re spending $5 for them to sign up on your email list, that could potentially turn into hundreds of dollars later, which is eight massive profit for you. It’s true. It’s true. And you need to figure out pretty quick. Like how much can you spend to get an email and Mr. Makeup. But I think you’re right on, it would be silly.

Like if I was marketing music and songs right now, if you guys are out, there are producers and you want to make money with, with a sales funnel. The first thing I would do is put out something free, dangle, a little freebie in front of their head to get their name and email address. I almost to consider nobody has a business, unless they have a list of emails, you know, YouTube, YouTube celebrities.

That’s not a business. That’s an income stream. That’s an income source. They don’t own any of their customers. Google does, you know, Amazon sellers. I know people that make millions of dollars a month selling on Amazon. I don’t consider that a business because Amazon, those are Amazon customers. You’re making, not yours.

You don’t know their names, these people that buy from you. So they’re not your customers. And so that applies with anything you sell. , you, you want to own that customer so you can follow up with them and keep them becoming a lifetime customer because you have to find out how much that customer is. So if you get a hundred emails, right, and you have one list of a hundred people and you know, that eventually a certain percentage of them are going to buy something from you, you could kind of determine that.

Okay. So every one of these emails, if I average it out is equal to $1. So I could spend up to $1 to get an email and I’ll still make money or break even break even. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s, that’s the importance of emails and I’ve used email lists. Like I think I was telling you, I don’t think I said it on the podcast.

Last year, I did an experiment where I spent six, $18,000 on Facebook ads in the summer. And I got 11,000. I built a list of 11,000 emails from those ads. After the ad, I pushed the gas down too hard on that Facebook campaign. And I broke the algorithm. So that was dead after like a couple months, but I still had my email.

Yeah. And so I just kept emailing those guys good stuff. And a bunch of them bought and I kept making money. So email lists are gold and they still apply. I don’t care what marketer. I don’t care today. Today. I still hear people saying it today. Professional marketers say email is not dead. And I’ve heard it from almost every marketer that I study even right now.

So email is not dead. It’s it’ll never be dead. The thing you brought up a really good point that I can’t stress enough, especially with all the producers that are on social media, on Facebook, Instagram. And I’ve said this countless times on the podcast, if you’re not collecting email emails at any point, anyone of these social media companies could.

They could pull your audience out from under you. I’ve talked about being shadow banned. If you’re shadow banned and you can no longer reach your audience, you don’t have an audience you’re fucked. This can legitimately ruin everything. You’ve tried to build over the years. If you’re not trying to convert those intake there, get their email.

Because if you don’t have that email at any point, someone someone’s basically controlling your, your life as a musician of w who’s going to see you. And who’s not with an email, you know, it’s going to land in their inbox at some point, you know that they’re probably going to see it more than likely the man.

I mean, I don’t know how, as for anyone that’s listening, you probably all still have your same fucking email from when you were 12 years old that you got 10 years ago, 20 years ago. Like I’ve had my emails since probably 2006. 2007 and I’ve never changed it and I’m never going to change it. I have probably 15,000 emails in that inbox that I’ve never read.

And, but there’s a punch of PR icy promo emails all the time where I’m like, Ooh, I’m going to click on that. I want that deal. And that’s how it works. And especially if you’re writing really good emails and someone’s not just giving you some fake email that they give to promo stuff to get free products, which that doesn’t happen as often as people think also people do not unsubscribe from your list as often as you would think.

, but if you’re writing emails properly, you know how to get people to open it up, you can easily start marketing to people. , and even if it’s just, here’s my new track, go stream it. Like, you know, what’s going to get in front of them. If you make a Facebook, or if you help you make a Facebook post, you, I can guarantee you it’s not reaching anyone unless it’s an ad.

You’re not reaching anyone Instagram. You can still reach people. Having email, you know, that it’s going out to every single person, you know, that more than likely they’re going to see it. , sometimes they’ll see it and they don’t care. They’re going to delete it. That happens as well. But at least, you know, they’re getting it.

It’s not, you’re leaving it up to some fucking algorithm and hopefully they see it. I don’t know if they are though. , but email is like, it’s step one. Honestly, if you wouldn’t, before you really start diving into the marketing space, especially with ads, I mean, hell you could start with ads in collect emails from your ads.

, but as long as your doing some sort of email list building, you’re going to be far better off than people who have no idea what the fuck they’re doing when they release a new track. Yeah. It’s a great head start. And I just want to say one more thing about email. It has more value now than you think you don’t just have to send people emails.

If you have an email. You can upload your entire email list to Facebook and show ads is Facebook will match that email up with the FA with a Facebook profile. And then you can show ads to everybody who’s on your email list who faced, who has a Facebook profile. So there’s other things you could do with emails too, besides just send them an email.

And like you said, you have to send them the right email or they’re not going to are there. So they don’t unsubscribe. And the way to do that is in.com secrets. I learned it and it works so good that people they’re not, not even remotely like annoyed, they are actually annoyed when they don’t get an email.

That’s how good I started to apply this. , people look forward to it and when you talk to them, they, they feel like they know you. They, they go, oh, you remember that email you sent about blah, blah, blah. And they’re excited about it. So there is a correct way to write emails. That book has, has it. Yeah.

Yeah. I, 100%, especially like telling your story through emails and just like value. I mean, provide value to people. People are when they sign, if someone signs up to your email list, they’re interested. It’s not like they’re signing up because they don’t, they don’t care unless you’re obviously, you know, you’re isotope and you’re giving away free plugins.

And most people will be like, give me the free plugin. I don’t care about anything else. But grade isotope also has really good emails. Like they, they provide value in their email lists. You’ll actually learn something by following them. And that’s the whole point though, of these email lists is you’re providing value.

And when the time comes, when you say, Hey, remember all that value I provided, can you provide me with some value and you give them something and hopefully they will stream your track, buy your merch, buy a ticket to your show, whatever it is, it doesn’t matter. As long as you have an email list and you’re nurturing now, It’s going to you’ll make, you’ll start making sales, , dot com secrets.

Yeah. I, I can’t suggest that enough. Let’s start getting a little bit more into, , the space of like the differentiation between ad platforms, because I think this is like a really, really important spot to start to kind of show people what the difference is. , from my experience and I’ve run quite a number of Google ads.

I think I, I have not spent as much money as most people. I think I’ve probably spent over my lifetime five or six grand. I know people who have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on Google ads. So I have a fraction of ad spend. That’s actually turned out to make me some more like almost $10,000 though, in profit.

So like it’s, it’s wort. , the thing about Google ads. Is Google ads are really great for service-based business businesses. I feel, , YouTube ads worked for products better than just a normal Google ad. The thing about a Google ad is that in what, what makes it so great about services and this, this applies to anyone listening who wants to, , be a, co-writer be a ghost producer.

They want to be a mixing and mastering engineer, whatever it is that you want to do. If it’s a service base business, Google ads is probably going to be a pretty good spot for you to want to hang out and, , test some things on the thing about Google ads though, and YouTube as well. YouTube is another big one.

YouTube and Google are the top two most used search platforms outside of anything else. I think Google is number one in YouTube is number two. And so with that in mind, what’s nice is when we’re talking about sales funnel and we’re warming people up. At first, we have a cold audience. They have no idea who they are.

Once they’re a warm audience, they know who we are, and they’re a little bit interested in what we’re doing. And so when someone searches for an answer on Google, they’re already warmed up. They’re looking for an answer. So when you have an ad pop-up, that’s based off that, that fires off of a keyword that, that you give, well, now you, it, you look more enticing because they’re already warmed up a little bit, as long as the ad looks good, right?

You have good ad copy that speaks to the person. And then your landing page also translates that their need, what they’re needing. You have the answer to that you’re already like in a really hot position where it’s pretty, you, you should be able to convert those people fairly easily. Facebook ads are a little bit different.

I feel like Facebook ads. , and I should say social media ads. Cause when I say Facebook ads, this applies to Instagram as well. Facebook owns Instagram. Anything, any ad you run on Facebook. Through Facebook, you can also run onto Instagram, but the thing about like Instagram and Facebook is they’re interruptive ads.

Meaning people are scrolling through feed. They’re probably trying to be mindlessly entertained. And when an ad pops up, that is disrupting that feed. So if you’re not providing value in that ad, I feel like there’s some issues there. , but it’s, I feel with Facebook ads and social media ads in general, they’re, they’re more product-based ads and more direct to market ads where it’s like your immediately trying to convince someone to click on the ad and convert right when they land on, , right when they land on your landing page.

Whereas with Google ads, it’s more people click on it, they’re interested and they may come back later more than likely they’re going to come back later because they’re probably shopping for different services, seeing who looks better, what price looks better. And they’re going to flip around until they find someone who they really like, and they go blip.

You know, reach out to this person, Facebook ads, you more than likely if you get a click and they go away, not always are they going to come back? I’d say more than likely. They probably aren’t. Would you agree with that, Steve? Yeah. Yeah. You got this like thin little line, like it’s not a strong reach on a Facebook ad.

It’s like you said, they were interrupted by something that caught their attention. So you have just like a real short time to like seal the deal and bring them into whatever you want to bring them into. But that’s where the sales becomes a very important thing because getting their attention is one thing, but what do you do when you have their attention?

If you know the right things to say to them at the right time with the right look, you could get them to open their wallet. I, it was hard for me to really believe that, , somebody who saw me for the first time would pay me money and they did, and they do, and it could be up to. You know, it could be a lot of money.

You know, I was only selling like a $7 like little eat book and then a $47 video course after that, I was surprised people were doing that. You know, so, and this was on the first time they’ve ever seen me cause it was a brand new product and they had a brand new site and they’d have no idea who I was. I knew how to sell.

That’s very important. I think talking about this too, I think video ads are probably like the best space for artists to play it because you know, you can have a text ad all day, , where you’re trying to convince people as an artist, let’s say as an artist, you’re wanting to get people to give up an email and you’re going to give them a free track or, you know, maybe a free remix of a popular track or something like that.

And you’re running an ad and you have text and you have an image and then you send them to a landing page and you have more texts and more images. That I feel like that can only go so far when you have a cold audience of who are presumably electronic music fans, if you built your audiences correctly.

But I feel like in that space, you’re probably going to have a more, a more rough time trying to convince those people to become a new fan of you. Why should they care about this person? Who’s more than likely a no name, , and why should they give a shit? And I think this is where video ads become super, super valuable.

Especially if you’re doing any sort of Twitch streaming stuff, you often have an opportunity to showcase who you are with, through your personality, how you interact with others. , and then also showing off some of your production skills and again, sharing your story more. So in a video that that’s gonna translate to people way more, especially if let’s say you have a mashup pack or something, or some sort of remixed.

You can showcase you building that track, share a little purse, love your personality in that video. And be like, if you want this track, you can go download it here and then send them to a landing page. And then you could have some additional texts. What do you think about that? I do think that that is a huge advantage having video.

Yes, but I’ve seen some of the ugliest sales pages make the most money. It’s really not about what the page looks like to a certain degree. I mean, now it kind of is because people expect a certain thing, but if you saw some writing with no music and you’re a musician, you saw some writing, it says maybe the ad said, are you ready to hear the best EDM track you’ve ever heard in your life?

Click here now, because this is going away in 24 hours or something like that. You might click that. And when you get there, then you can play the audio file. So words are still really powerful. You know, if you know what to say and you hit the right button to trigger somebody to do something, be. They will do it.

I like laying that time preference in there too, where a limited time is so valuable, putting it like rushing people a little can be a strong tool. Yes. Urgency and scarcity. There are huge things that like, it’s a mistake that people make on sales that they don’t really think about, but it’s huge. Just, , having a limited amount of something, you can only get it at a certain time.

Yeah. You gotta have that. If you want to make a quick direct sales limited edition merge, especially with your, if you have an email list and like where you’re saying it’s, if you have a big enough email, email list with a few thousand people and you put that into Facebook and you’re running ads to your email list, send an email to them and you have 25 pieces of merge that are limited.

They’re sending, you’re selling to people for 30 bucks, a pop, not too bad. You could probably make a few sales. And they always buy on that last day. And that works, that works all the time. Last chance to say all going away, like in three hours or whatever. Yeah. People will buy. Oh yeah. The urgency is high.

It’s fantastic. There was a book. , I’ve, I’ve recommended it before. I’m trying to remember what it’s called. , oh, , contagious. Have you read contagious? I heard of it and I haven’t read it. Contagious is fantastic. They talk about urgency in that, in that book and then one topic I’ve just crammed down my listeners throats over and over again and all about like social, current.

Like people want to be a part of the new group. They want to be the cool it’s like hipsters. You know, everyone has a band that they’re like, oh, I listened to them first before they want to be the cool person that knows about something first and they’re sharing it with their friends. So this is all stuff that can be translated through ads and sales funnels.

If you know how to translate this sense of social currency, that you could be giving to people urgency and then emotion, all this stuff tied in together, you can really just pull some strings and convince people to want to buy your stuff, , or sign up for your email list or stream your track or whatever it is, you know, obviously as long as it’s ethical or of course, that’s the only way to go.

If you will screw yourself. If you do not do this ethically, cause it always catches up to you. Plus you’ll just feel like shit. You know what I mean? Most people, yeah. Most people do, , you more than likely won’t make sales too. If you don’t know how to sell. And then you’re trying to unethically sell.

You’re probably not going to, though there are some sociopath’s who have definitely scammed. Some people I’ll tell you some of the biggest marketers are always on the edge of criminality. You know what I’m saying? Like if they’ll tell their stories and they’ll tell how they almost went to jail for this or that, and it’s not even related to marketing, sometimes these guys are just wild men, but these are the guys that make it, , And, you know, you have to have a certain amount of respect for that courage that they have to just go out and just fricking, I got this idea.

I’m going to freaking do it no matter what the means that they, the matter what entails, it could be a little crazy, but they get their shit done. Yeah. Yeah. There’s some, there’s some go getters out there. There’s some wild go getters out there. Let’s let’s talk a little bit more about, , specifically building an ad from scratch and building a sales funnel with a landing page, because there, there are some key things that you need to know before you ever step into the ring of trying to sell people.

Because if you don’t, again, it’s kind of the fundamental. The idea of like, if you get the core fundamentals, you can play around and test things all day and really you should be testing is everything. Testing is how that’s the loose creative part of marketing, where you find what works and you apply that.

And you, like you said, you kind of step on the gas a little, , and, and you, you increase that budget the more do you increase that budget as long as you’re profitable, you’re going to always make that money back. , what has been the biggest experience for you? I should say, learning lesson when you’re first starting out in ad, what would you say is like the most important thing when you’re first building an ad, when you’re first building an ad, what’s the most important thing, you know, I guess, , picking the right audience is huge.

You know, if you just, if yeah, if you pick the wrong audience, you’re just never kind of make it, but here’s the thing. And why everybody should try Facebook ads now. And look, I’m not a fan of Facebook, the company. I think a lot of the stuff they do is despicable. If I see one more like announcement from them about certain things, I’m just, I’m just, you know what I mean?

I, it, they drive me nuts, but they have gotten very good at, , all you have to do with an ad is the point and making an audience, you just have to point Facebook in the right direction and they’ll do the rest of the work. You know, if you’re, if you want to sell to somebody who likes trucks, it used to be like, all right, you have to go into the detailed targeting and type Toyota, but you can’t type Toyota and Ford at the same time, because it’ll conflict with blah-blah-blah.

Now. It’s just like you go in there and you type truck, and then you click the little button that, that Facebook gives you that says, by the way, do you want us to try to find more people like this a bit, if the ad works and you go, hell yeah. Yes. , so Facebook does a lot of the work. Now you just got to point them in the right.

And so Facebook ads have actually gotten easier. I couldn’t agree with you more. The, I think audiences are probably the top of it. I mean, it’s really everything. If you don’t know who your audience is, period, even outside of creating an ad, how the hell do you know what you’re selling or how to sell it to someone?

You have no idea. So starting with the audience, I think is definitely number one. , like you said, with the lookalike audiences, it’s fantastic. You can take a group of PE. You could take an ad. That’s narrowed down to people who like tri tonal, , Armin van Buren, Hardwell, and then they also need to be a fan of edm.com.

You can create that audience with someone let’s say male and female, between the ages of 18 and 30. You can create that specific person. And then you can create a lookalike audience to find people 1% of, or I guess it would, you could go up to, I think, 5% or something. So we’ll make the audience size up to 5% bigger with people who look similar to this.

So not only are you going to be reaching the people that you’ve specified with your audience, but Facebook is going to say, Hey, these people over here who don’t necessarily like those exact things look like this audience, we think that you, that they’d want to see this product. Yeah, that’s true. And look, but the, the real power of lookalike audiences is when you start making sales and then you tell Facebook, alright, see all the people that bought from me find more people like that.

So Facebook is literally going to go find out people who look like the people that gave you money. And you touched on something, , with the lookalike audiences. I mean, that’s how I made a lot of money last year, because I was only targeting people who looked like the people that were giving me. But there’s also another thing on top of that, , audiences are important, but the first thing you do before you pick an audience is you basically tell Facebook what your intention is with the ad.

And you can have different intentions with your ad. You could just say, I want people who engage with my ad. Basically people who are going to give you likes and comments and stuff like that. And Facebook knows all the people that typically engage. Or you could say, I just want people to go to my website.

I don’t care if they buy or not good. That’s called a traffic ad and miraculously, I don’t know how Facebook only finds people that will go to your website and not buy anything. It’s really hard to make a sale when you’re running a traffic ad. Or you could say, I just want somebody who’s going to become a lead people who like to give names and their name and email Jess, but still don’t buy anything.

And Facebook will serve that up to you. So a lot of times, if you want to make money, you have to target for purchases. And not any of the other stuff, because if you do, Facebook’s going to serve you up people that don’t buy shit. So that’s the way it is. And that’s very important. I thought my sales page and landing page sucked because I was targeting to get leads.

All he was trying to do is get people’s name and email to, to give them a little booklet that I was selling an e-book and I got a lot of them for good price, but they weren’t buying anything that minute. I, I turned it to purchases or sales. Now I think it’s called, , people started buying my stuff, but those people are more expensive to target.

You know, if you want to, if you want to just get people who engage with your ad, that’s cheap. If you want to, if you want Facebook to give you people who buy, they know the value of that person, they charge you more. So the trick is to make more on the back end than you are on the front end. And it just leads into that.

Let me just keep going a little bit through the funnel. Here’s the thing. Most people aren’t going to make money on the, on the front end of their. Funnel. In other words, you run an ad. You give away a free ebook and maybe you sell some low priced thing, like seven bucks. You’re probably not going to make a profit on that.

And most marketers don’t and they know it and they don’t give a shit. They know that they’re going to make money when they sell the a hundred dollar thing on the backend or the thousand dollar thing on the back end, which they have queued up, ready to go. And they know when to deliver that. And so you can’t get discouraged.

And most people say, oh, Facebook, I tried Facebook ads. They don’t work. That’s because you have no idea how to sell a backend product. That’s the only reason your ad didn’t work. So do not be discouraged when you’re trying to run ads and you know, you’re spending money, but you’re not making it back right away.

You have to have some products on the back that you sell to the people that came in. And then you look at your numbers. You look at how much you spent over like a three month span. You got to count the like, not the first day in three months, do these people become customers and if you worked it out and they’re statistics programs that do this, and you could even do it just in the Facebook ads manager, you could see how much the lifetime value is.

What it’s called the lifetime value of your customer is, and you find out the lifetime value of your customers, and then you know how much you can spend. And, you know, if you can make money, very little people make money on the front end with that first sale. And they know it, they lose most people. I know they lose sometimes hundreds of dollars because they know one out of a hundred people are going to buy their $10,000 program and they just make money that way.

I that’s how I’m, that’s how I made most of the money off of my Google ads. I’m technically, if you look at my Google ads account, if you look at my, the amount of conversions I’ve gotten, if you look at the value of the conversions, I’ve gotten, I’ve lost a lot of money on Google ads. But if you look at the clients that I’ve actually gotten from Google ads, they are the highest spenders.

Out of all of my clients and they have made me well over what I’ve paid overall for all of my Google ads. So it’s not even so much that I’m actually losing. Cause there’s a bit of a lag time. Like over the time that they are my client, they will continue to spend more and more money and keep giving me money.

And I might have spent $60 to get that person to contact me for mixing and mastering. But after that, when they made, became a paid client, technically that’s $60. I made a little bit of money, but then they came back and then they came back again. And now it’s basically like just free money I’m getting.

Cause I didn’t spend any more money to convince that person to become a CA they’re already my client. And so now I’ve spent $60 and made thousands of dollars off of one person. Yeah. And once you know that number, like you did, that’s magical because now you know exactly how much you could spend. Most people freak out when they go, oh my God, my leads are costing me a hundred dollars.

And then you go, well, how much is your program? Well, it’s a $10,000 program. Well, how many people buy it? And they work out the math and they see that they’re making a lot of money, but they’re not, but they’re not putting money on ads because it’s a lead cost quote, over a hundred dollars. I’m like, no, no, you’re making money.

So yeah, like you, like you said, that’s how you have to look at it. That’s business. Yeah. And I think the world of email marketing is where you’re going to be able to offer specifically for producers because it, listen, if you run a service-based business in the world of BDN and you’re listening to this podcast, then this is going to be perfect for you to be able to start setting up ads, find the right audience.

Test audiences is another thing we can get into is some testing stuff later on. , but if you have. That front end product. That’s just $5 ebook that you want people to download, and you’re collecting emails off of that. And then you market a bigger product later, , with, uh, a deeper sales funnel that that’s all that works really, that works really well for you.

Service-based people or product-based people, , for you producers who are just looking for fans. I think this is where like using ads to get email sign ups and getting as many emails as you can from the right target audience. And then nurturing that audience through some sort of drip email campaign over a month or two.

And knowing that, okay, my open rate is continually increasing. My click-through rate is continually increasing with these email campaigns as you’re testing stuff. Now you have an opportunity, especially, and if your streams are going. If you’re seeing all these numbers go up, as you’re running ads and collecting more emails.

Now you have an opportunity to actually create some Merck or some sort of product to then actually market to then actually sell and probably make most of your money back on your ads, but potentially make even more money and turn a profit. The turnaround rate for getting a profit off of these might be a little, and it might take a little bit longer, but the point is, is you’re not just getting fans, but you’re probably creating super fans.

If, again, if you’re doing this the right way, writing the right emails, like think.com secrets is the perfect introduction for this for a lot of you on how to do that, what is the right way? How do I build a lot of this? , but if you’re doing those things the right way, you can start legitimately making super fans that will buy your fucking merge.

Most of you listening are probably like, why would anyone want, want to buy merge? Or you might even have merchant. You’re like, why aren’t people buying my work. I guarantee a lot of the stuff. Did you collect their email? Are you nurturing them or are you telling them who you are, what your story is, why they should care about your stuff?

Because once you start doing that and then you start running these ads or sending out emails to sell merge, your sales are probably is, are going up. You’re going to start seeing legitimate sales through this a hundred percent. And you can use that email list. A lot of times people don’t know what to sell.

Like you said, so here’s a trick. Ask them, you know, if you have an email list, send out a little survey and said, what would you guys most, like, what would, what would Mo what do you want me to do? What do you want to sell? Like, what would you buy for me? Like what, what is you most want? And you’ll find out.

I mean, it’s one way, another way is the thing that people keep emailing you about sell that, whatever that thing is that you will get the most emails about on a daily, weekly basis or comments or anything. That’s what they want. You do have to find out what they want. I mean, I know a girl who has 400,000 YouTube subscribers.

She sings songs on YouTube and she makes money from YouTube ads, but that’s just a smidge of how much she could possibly be making, because she doesn’t have an email list. And the advice I give her almost every time I steer cause I want her to do it. And I wanted to make her be a millionaire like in a year because he can, , is put out some little free thing and get all their email addresses, get them off of YouTube.

I mean, keep, obviously keep them watching YouTube, but get them, get them in your email list and then ask them what the hell they want and give that to them. Don’t do a Patrion. You know, get sponsors and sell their products, sell your own stuff. These people are invested in you. And as an artist, here’s this is what I would do as a musician.

People love you. They love what you’re doing. The more you can bring them into your little club. I think the more you could charge for product, like if you did like a personal zoom call with your super fans, once a month, maybe they might pay over a hundred bucks a month for that maybe more who knows you could probably sell like something signed.

I mean, I’m sure they would love some signed stuff from you for like 50 bucks or more. Who knows, like, these are the things that you can sell as a musician. You can’t sit there and go, oh my gosh, I can’t sell my tracks because they’re just going to, you can just get them on Spotify or whatever. Yeah. Don’t sell your tracks.

I mean, you, you can like have like an exclusive album of just tracks that are not posted anywhere else, but sell some products, man. And I told Christian this, I think on when he was on my show, the worst thing. I think to your fans or anybody that in any business where you’re giving people value, the worst thing you could do to those people that you’re giving value to is not give them a chance to buy something from you, because they are getting stuff for free, for free from you.

If you’re an artist, they’re getting your fricking awesome music, that’s changing their life. They want to give back. And if you don’t find a way for them to give back, they’ll find a way they might even start a Patriot on their own for you. This is how bad people want to give back. So you have to give them an outlet to give you money and they’ll feel good.

The balance will be restored in the universe and everybody will be happy. So don’t be afraid to ask for money. They want to pay you. I agree. , and I think a lot of artists, they get stuck in this imposter syndrome idea. They, I think probably most producers feel so defeated because they’re so obsessed with Spotify streams.

And when they see that they only have 5,000 Spotify streams and not 500,000, they go, well, no one likes this. No one gives a shit. And no one cares about what I’m doing. When in reality, if you got 1% of that 5,000 people to buy a hundred dollars product from you and you probably could find five people that would give you that, , you’re probably going, or I guess it would be, would that be five 50 regardless, you’re making way more money than you ever thought you probably could.

And there’s that w there’s probably 1% of your current audience probably wants to give you. Maybe not a hundred dollars, but least 25 or $50. Like there’s a, there’s a price range that you can find that you can easily sell stuff to your audience. You just need to find it and figure that out. , and we, you know, you touched on something about Patrion.

We have a, , I did an episode with Matthew Ebell. I think it was like episode 47, 48, something like that. , and he is an EDM producer who’s on Patrion and it was a great episode and he taught a lot about how to be successful on Patrion. And I do think patron is a really good place, but going off of what we were talking about earlier in the episode is when you have a Patrion and it’s a good way to set up content, to give to people.

And they’re giving you a monthly fee. When you have that set up on Patrion, you are at the whim of Patrion still again. You’re not in control at any point, the rug could be pulled out from under you and you no longer have income and don’t get it twisted. That has happened before by many people. There’s a lot of people we’ve had very, very successful Patriots fans.

And they, they were policed because of thought crime. And they, the, the rug was pulled out from under them and they lost everything and that happened, and it will continue to happen more than likely. So it’s important to understand that you can still build this thing. You can build this content machine.

We’re a monthly subscription where different tiers, you can do that on your own website. And now no, one’s taking a percentage. You own that audience. It’s not going anywhere. Granted, once you get to that level, you want, you do want to make sure that like you have your shit runs nice, right. It runs smooth.

It’s fast. , that way it’s not super bogged down and it’s so damn slow that people just don’t want to interact with your content. And they unsubscribe, , there there’s some more logistical stuff with that, but the point is, and I think this goes to your point even more. So Steve is that. Get fucking creative with what you want to sell as an artist.

Don’t like it, you’re not don’t sit here and think, well, all I have to sell is tracks that that’s not true. You can sell private sessions for your fans to sit in on you writing stuff, right. They can give you requests to write a remix and you can do that live for them, or create exclusive video content that you only give to those.

Like, there are things you can do for your audience. And again, this goes back to your point as well, ask them what they want. What do you want? What would you like? What would you like to purchase for me? What would you like me to create for you here? I’ve created this thing for you now. It’s $50. Would you like it?

And more than likely they’re going to go? Oh my God. Yes. Like it’s, if you just like, get your, get outside of the box, a little, get creative. You’re already creative, right? You’re a musician. You’re fucking. Get a little more creative with what you can sell, whether that’s zoom sessions or are you guys all hang out and have a fucking cocktail hour, or you literally do a physical event in person in your town.

If there’s enough people like there’s, there are so many other things you could, you could fucking do raffles like for different merge packages. And there’s just, there’s so much that you can do as an artist that you could be offering as products or little content service type things that you’re not even thinking of, that people would probably be interested in as long as you’re curating the right audience.

And this is where the whole thing comes in, where like you build an ad, you get people to sign up on your email list. You nurture that email list, get the super fans, and now start offering some of the here’s my fan member site that you can go sign up $5 a month. You get these tiers, these products in this tier, you want to upgrade, go open to your higher.

$50 a month subscription. If I’m in your town, you get to come to the show backstage for free, like that’s massively valuable, extremely exclusive. And the social currency aspect is there like big tide. Now you’re the fucking cool person that gets to go back fucking stage, hang out in the green room. You get to be on the side of the stage while there, while you’re playing.

Like there’s the amount of value in that is just unreal. A hundred percent couldn’t have said it better myself, man. , let’s talk a little bit about, I mean, we’ll, we’re probably gonna wrap this up here pretty soon. I think, , I do want to talk a little bit about, you know, let’s, let’s get into the testing space because this is pro I, I think this is probably a good place to start wrapping it up and it’s, it’s kind of the end of the sales funnel stage, I guess, or even ads.

You have the ad set up, you have your landing page. , you’re now trying to sell, but how do you know if it’s working? How do you know if you could make more money? How do you know if you’re losing money? And I think this is where testing becomes a so extremely important. And it’s also important to understand that you can test everything, test the ad image.

If you’re using an image, test the video. If you’re, you can make multiple copies of copies of the video, test the text, , test the text on your landing page, the color, everything on every test at all, a and B it, see what works better. , for me. And I’m, I’m curious about your input on this, Steve, for me, I think probably the most important thing to test is the most important thing.

When you first creating an ad, which is the audience. If you’re not testing your audience, because again, there’s so many different aspects that you could apply to an audience with different interests and likes and demographics. That sometimes you don’t realize there’s a more lucrative market than another one or more lucrative audience.

Would you say audience seeing audience testing is like the biggest thing for you? Or what do you find is the most important thing to test? I think it is, I think it is the most important thing. , I, I have my audience kind of dialed in and these recent ads I’m running. So I’ve been testing more pictures and, and copy, but, so, so it’s interesting that you say that because I almost forgot that testing audiences is a thing.

I agree with you because in the beginning you have to find out and, and it’s, it’s really easy to test. You can just run two ad sets right next to each other and test different audiences. And at the marketing company, I was, I was with yes, audiences, a hundred percent. You test people that engage with you, test people that didn’t engage with the test what’s called cold traffic.

They never seen you before you test new traffic, you test, you know, , details of their target, like interests that they have interest targeting. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Audience testing is huge. And then coming after that, I usually like to run three ads at a time with, with different pictures. I’ll usually switch one thing in the ad.

I don’t switch go completely crazy on ads. I switched one thing and to see which one performed the best and in whichever one performed the best, I keep that running and I make two more other ones based off of that. And I pick the winner of that and you just keep picking winners and winners and winners, and then that’s for the ad and same thing with, , okay, so we did the pictures, also the sales copy, the words that are in the ad copy is so important.

This is, I think one of the most overlooked things is copy is kind of everything. Yeah. Yeah. Because the copy incites them to take action. You know what I mean? If you don’t say click here on an ad, no matter how obvious it is to you, if you don’t say click the button or whatever. They’re probably not going to click the button because here’s another thing to know about people in general, they’re in a most, people are in like a semi hypnotic state.

They’re not all quite there in present time. So if you go up to a total stranger and you say, touch your head, don’t probably go like this and not know why they did it because you just gave them a command and they execute it. Same thing applies to marketing. If they’re scrolling down something and you say, click the button, they’ll click it.

You know what I mean? So you have to, you have to give them a command to kind of pop them out of whoever they’re in. So yeah, that the cop, but also the copy, , convinces them to click the button to you have to have good copy that, convinces them to do certain things that you want them to do. And then when they actually land on the landing page, like good software, like click funnels is great for what we’re talking about.

It’s great software. It’s the best page builder out there. It’s so easy. , you could run split tests, you can run two pages at the same exact time it’s called split testing. You probably, you guys probably know about. And yeah, you just run one page and run other page and see which one wins. See which one gets you the most sales or signups.

So you can test all the way down the line like that from audiences to pictures, to text, to landing pages , there’s probably other stuff too. I mean, there’s some software that will do a split test for two different emails and see which one, one. Yup. So testing is huge. Testing is everything.

It’s, it’s how, you know what works. If you don’t know what works, then you you’re just kind of running blind. It’s like driving down a highway with no map and no GPS. You’re just like, well, I, I guess I’ll turn here. We’ll see what the fuck happened. Right. Or if you go on, then you say that’s, these are the people that say it doesn’t work.

The people that don’t do this and don’t test and they try one thing and it didn’t work. And so there’s some people that lost a lot of money cause they were just doing the wrong things. And also there’s a lot of real crap marketers out there. Oh, he cause there’s some slime balls that really know that they can open a marketing company, delivers zero results and probably stay in business for awhile.

So there’s a, most of the people I talked to have been screwed over at least once by some company, especially on running ads and they all, and these people think Facebook ads don’t work anymore. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s so far from the truth. I yeah, the audience thing, testing three things at a time, I do the exact same thing I’ll have sometimes I’ll go up to like 10 different audiences.

, and I’ll test, , like $1 per audience and spend about $10 per day and after about a week or so maybe less than that, I get a good idea of what is, who’s the right audience here. And then I pick that audience. And from there I do the same thing with about three ads were all changed. Just the. Run it for a few days, see which one does better test the images, run it for a few days, see which one does better.

, and then, you know, obviously if you’re not making any sales on the backend or converting anyone, but you are getting a lot of clicks, well, there’s probably something wrong with your landing page exam, start to test. That’s a good point. If you know how to read your statistics, you know where the problem is, and it’s not that hard to learn those statistics.

Yeah, no, I think Russell Brunson’s, , book.com secrets is going to give you, give you a lot of information on that. There’s hundreds, if not thousands of videos on YouTube that you can look up just on like, what are good KPIs, key performance indicators for Facebook ads or for a landing page conversion.

Like all of these things you can look up. , and I’ll actually put some extra links in the show notes that we didn’t mention. , on the podcast today, and that will be just some really good resources for everyone to check out on. What’s a good conversion for a landing page. How do you build a landing page?

And this will give out, give all of you guys a little more insight on some of this topic that we can really hit the ground running, because I think this is like, I mean, there’s so many EDM producers that I know that just don’t even touch ads and it could be, here’s the thing that we didn’t mention.

Maybe I should have mentioned it at the very beginning of the episode. And I think this is a really good, insightful thing to end the episode on, but the thing about ads actually, let’s start with content creation when you’re creating content, your planting seeds for fruit that you can pick later, the fruit is going to be the income that you make, , so that you can be livable.

So you w as you’re creating content and putting content out there, you’re planting seeds, you’re nurturing your audience. You’re watering that plant until one day. It’s going to be a big fruit. And it’s going to blossom and you can pick all of that fruit from it. It’s going to be very ripe. One day. It takes a long time, though, if you, if anyone’s grown a tree, it’ll take you 15, 20 years before you get any of that fruit.

It’s not to say it takes 15 or 20 years when you’re creating content. Usually it’s a couple of years, but it’s a long time. There’s a lot of time that you have to spend nurturing audiences, constantly creating hours, thousands of hours. Eventually it’ll pay off. If you’re consistent enough. The thing about ads is ads is like, well, I don’t want to spend the time growing a fucking fruit tree, cause I’m going to starve to death.

Why don’t I go down to the grocery store? And I pick up some fruit. There cost me a couple of dollars, but I can have an apple right now and I can eat it right now. It’s exactly what an ad is. You’re bypassing the need to fertilize a tree to water it, to make sure it gets enough sunlight. And to grow it over time.

Instead, you can just pay a couple dollars now and go pick the right fruit, right? Yeah, that’s a great analogy. I never heard that, that one I got from the six figure home studio podcast by Brian Hood and Chris Graham. So everyone can thank them for that one. Dude, let me put a little topping on that. Okay.

So that’s your ads like going to the supermarket and buying fruit. Here’s a good sales funnel. You then take that fruit. You just bought you go down the street and you sell it for a profit. And not only now, do you have an apple that you can eat, but you have money in your pocket. Exactly. Yeah. That I’m going to, I’m going to have to cut this snippet out and put it as a little preview at the very beginning of the episode to hook people because this should not be at the end.

Oh yeah. Thank you so much for hanging out, man. Do you have any stuff you want to plug, letting everyone know if they want to go somewhere, check out what you’re doing. , go ahead and plug whatever you’ve got going on. , like I said, you rekindled my, uh, my, my interest in the podcast on my website doll junkie.com.

Yeah. Go to Joe dunky.com. , did I say Joel donkey? You said John donkey too. Oh my God. You’re rubbing off on me. Oh my God. This guy has to be like a moon. I’m going to have to buy that URL to, yeah, you are seriously go there and just see what’s what’s there. I probably might have some previous by the time this gets posted, all of my podcasts are on there and it’s not just the EDM producer podcast.

There’s the sound design show. And what else do I have up there? Oh, the plugin podcast where I was interviewing plugin companies for awhile, both of those probably will get revived too, but there’s, there’s some good older content, but I’m going to have some sales funnels on there. I’m going to ask you guys to buy stuff eventually.

Go to Dodge, junky.com and just see what I got going on there. I think you’ll like it. Awesome. Steve, thank you so much. I appreciate you hanging out, man. , everyone had to NBS audio.com/episode 78 to check out all the show notes and I will see you guys next time.