I appreciate everyone for checking it out. So in June I want to give away a free mixing and mastering lesson. That means I’ll be taking your produce track and we’ll get in on a zoom session and you can watch me mix and master your track. You can ask any questions that you have, and it’s gonna be totally free. All that you need to do to entering to this giveaway is Goto Apple podcasts. Go to the show and leave a good review. And what I mean by good review, I don’t mean that. Say this show is so great, you can say it’s bad. You can say what you don’t like about it. You can say what you like about it. But the point is, I want the reviews to be good for other people looking for shows that are gonna help them out. So whatever you have learned the most from this show, how you think this show benefits other producers, or why they should be listening the show or why they shouldn’t listen to this show. Just leave a review that would help out other producers if they’re looking for a show similar to this one again. Goto Apple podcast. Leave that review. I’ll be looking through all the reviews and entering your guy’s name and for the giveaway. And in June I’ll be announcing that winner and again you’ll be sitting in on a mixing and mastering lesson for your track so I can’t wait to check out the reviews guys. And I can’t wait to work with one of you. Thank you so much and enjoy the show. Hey, guys, welcome to Elektronik. Dance money. You’re number one business resource for making money as Elektronik, musicians and producers. All right, sweet. I think we are good to go here. Um, everyone, welcome back to another episode of electronic dance money. I’m super excited for this one. I’ve been searching for a guest for a little while and my buddy Noah hooked me up with Alex Large F ur an e d. M ghost producer. You actually run your own business doing ghost production, which is, you know, I remember when I first learned about ghosts producing back in like 2013 2014 and it was, I think, as new producers. It’s something you’re so offended by because you feel like it’s Anyone who gets a ghost producer is not wanting to put in the work where, and there might be some truth to that, but I don’t think a lot of producers understand, um, what it’s like to be a full touring artist on the road, 24 7 doing gigs 200 days out of the year, sometimes 300 days out of the year, and you just don’t have the time to be in the studio, or you might need help finishing up a track there. There’s a whole multitude of different reasons for why someone might need a ghost producer. Um, and it was until I learned more about the industry and kind of how it’s ran and the politics involved that, uh, sometimes a ghost producers just the way you need to go for a specific reason. And just because someone gets a ghost producer does not necessarily mean that they use a ghost producer every single time. But first I want I’d like to I’d like to know a little bit more about your story Well, more specifically for the gas because they know we spoke on the phone. And I think your background with electronic music is super unique. Especially how you got into ghost produce ghost production. So go ahead. And I mean, take the floor. Let’s let’s hear a little bit about your story how you got involved with electronic music and how you started. Edie. Um, ghost production.

Um, so it was. It was 12 years ago. I started making music by myself just for fun. And then I realized that I can release this music. I can play this music out on gigs. Um, but, um, but then there was no money involved, so it was just super hardcore intention to be out there to get your music heard by someone else. And I ended up recording on secretary Trance album, playing a few gigs. Um, here, luckily, And if you get outside in the ever Mmm. After a second leg trance, I realized that this is not, um, the type of surroundings in terms of people who are going on this party that I want to stick with it because it was always night time drugs, um, alcohol, mostly drugs. And I just did. I just do feel comfortable because I’m the guy who is behind the computer behind the scenes. And then, boom, they get you out there and you have to you know, you have to be on the same vipers them, and sometimes you go drugs and stay stay late at night. So I decided to switch my music to progressions. Trance. That’s actually where I met. No, with releasing music on enhanced records, armada, flesh over respect course. And and I was super excited because I saw it. Something more commercial and less drug addictive and so on. The people are more nicer in the niche, and that was quite challenging because in secondary transfer, the community is not so huge as in commercial generous, though. Back then, when I started making progressive trance was super commercial with guys, the Army into year still playing Trance and I made up a few releases on those labels, but I never got any gigs, any interviews? I guess it was just making tracks leading them and how I call it. It’s exactly the same thing if you’re gonna save your track on onto your computer desktop and just leave it there for years was literally no fans. Just a few producers out there were like, Hey, congratulations visually is there and that’s it. So no, no progress at all. Almost. I went to normal five days in the week, job full time, working as a sales manager, sending scene for simple and self cellphone SIM cards, something like 18 teen rising, then, yes, I was working there for four years. I was super passionate about about his job because it was quite challenging. Here you have to sell something that people might not need, but you have to sell it. So I think this This gave me an ability to get some marketing and sales skills on also negotiation skills. My mother was she she had a cancer, so I had to quit this job and stay with her for for four months and then after she passed away, um, there was a chance for me Like to have to go back to a normal job, doing the same thing over again and again or make something by myself. So since on the regular job Ah, you work five days, You’re super tired at the evenings. You just want to drink a beer and get a nap or play Sonny PlayStation. There is not so much energy and passion left for for the music, even if I want to make it. I just got, like, 23 hours and then I have to sleep because in the morning people wait Me and my boss is waiting me, Ah, to get to get me my money, you know, for for being the studio rentals and equipment on my bills. Basically Ah, yes. So I decided that I should just try with music. So I have a friend who’s ah, website developer. He made a simple landing page. We just put my releases on dumb, made a description like, Hey, if you’d like to hire Mia’s mixing Mustang Engineer, close producer um, sound designer, the guy who is going to make your jingles, DJ set interest, melodies metes. I just try to cover The most aspects in the service is which musician um can work on. We put $100 a little part of my savings from my job. Instead. Advertisement on Google AdWords and only one month after I got my first my first mother. And I think this success for four days not was just my website and the music, but also the website title called Medium Dash Go Stash Production that Come I don’t know why. Sometimes in asking myself, Why didn’t I call the steps italics leadership that come? But I call it medium post production. I don’t know. I back then I wasn’t falling any hype or trends or I didn’t even know there is a stigma around postproduction term eso It just went naturally and yeah, after getting my first order, I think I got 400 euro for ghost production track for a guy Forget from Italy. I was super happy running on the kitchen, saying to my girlfriend like, Hey, now we can Now we can leave. Is this money for one month’s? Because in Russia, like 400 years, it’s ah, enough to pay your rent, your fool, and even some entertainment, you know? So it’s okay. Game changer. It’s a game changer. Yeah, that was That was the fact. And then I think we must have a little bit more money from that order back into the advertisement. So there was about 150 Didn’t get another order, another order. And we still got those order, you know, when the daily basis from from there. So five years after this small landing page turned into the hole ortell for producers around the globe selling their tracks. Not just me, but about 500 producers.

Wow. Wow. I didn’t see. I knew that other producers were selling their tracks on your site. I didn’t realize there was over 500. That’s awesome. You can. I mean, just saying that you know how if successful it is and how I mean ghost production works. It’s gonna be it’s always gonna be around in the industry and its similarly you look at any pop star and you go. I mean, they’re technically have ghost producers. Their name is on the track. But they didn’t fucking sit that they had five writers and producers writing the track and then a mixing engineer and then a mastering engineer. And they might even have writers that were writing the vocals for the pop star and even the melodies that the pop star’s gonna sing. This is something that’s always gonna be around in the industry, even with rock music. When bands going in write songs, they aren’t necessarily riding every piece of it. They might have writers that come in or other people from other bands coming to help them write a song. So and it might even be that they just have a co writer with them and not necessarily a ghost producer. Do you guys do that as well? Do you guys do co writings where maybe someone has an idea for a track and they’re halfway finished, but they need someone else to come in and kind of finish the other half and polish it all up. You guys do that as well?

Yeah, true. But they think that comes is the trouble here in the whole ghost production industry that basically we’re same guys that are making co productions for pop stars. But the difference between us, the main difference is that we’re not getting credits. That’s the only difference. Yeah, so and that’s why there’s a lot of, like, pulling and sort of threats on ready than everywhere. Bullying goes producers. Even my advertisement on Facebook. I got, like, hundreds of comments saying like, Fuck you guys gonna die, You’re selling your talent, your guy’s useless And so on People who buy their they don’t have their hands O R. Yeah, there’s so much going on that I

mean, like I was saying at the beginning, there’s a crazy stigma behind Ghost Produce ghost production. And I really do think it comes from the more younger producer where they haven’t been around in the industry yet they don’t know what it’s all about. And then they also don’t realize that these are other producers that are just trying to live and do what they want. They want to write music for a living and like this podcast, what it’s all about is teaching producers how they can do that, how they can go from just making beats in their parent’s bedroom or in their bedroom at their parent’s house to living in their own place, doing music full time. Whether that has to do with you doing mixing master ghost production and ghost production is a really good way to make that living, cause I mean, how much are you guys selling tracks for?

Ah, well, so we have, like, two divisions on the upside. The first division is a custom made order. When someone has an idea, he brings it in and we developing. You’re constantly going back and forth with feedback and so on. And the price there is $1000 for ah track and for remix. We charge $900 for co creation when someone sent us their stamps or media or a cappella, Then we think that it’s kind of a co creation. So we charge for it. $850. Ah, and another. Yeah. And another vision is where we allow everyone from around the world Nigeria, Brazil, in here, Russia, Whatever. The guy’s ghost cruisers, they can place their tracks and start setting it from Is Lois 1 99 to 7 99 So the average price right now it’s ah, 2020. We’re still live here on the virus. Anyone think out there were still alive? We still charging 3 49 years dollars on the average for ghost produced track. Yes, that’s it.

Over there that I like. Bello will sag in there. Uh, s o in How long does that usually take for? I mean, I guess if if a producer just is selling their track on your website how it takes, however long for them to make a track. But let’s say you’re making a custom made track. I’m coming to you. I’m gonna pay $1000. We’re going to go back and forth to get the track that I want on average. How long does it usually take to make that sort of track?

Yes. So on customer basis from ah, they receiving their I D. Yeah. It takes us about three days to come up with assured Emma and either by a satisfied then we’re asking him to pay the money up front in order to continue. If he’s not satisfied, we can make one more demo to see if we’re on the same wife. If not, we just, um we just part always. Ah, And if you pays for it, then change comes in so usually Ah, like we prefer to finish tracks in 23 divisions, which might take one more week but some customers to go really crazy into revisions. And, you know, our slogan is, we worked until your 100% satisfied, so we don’t have any revisions. Limitations in our contract. Ah, and the Guinness record was 40 revisions in our company. Yeah, it took two months. Two months? Yeah, there’s an operation like four divisions for 34 It’s

that is that’s about Mina’s. Well, I I do the same thing I usually give about. I’m actually starting in new River Ridge revision process. But in the past, what I’ve done for mixing mastering was I gave three revisions, and by the third revision, they’re usually super happy. They’re like they’re like, Okay, cool, it’s great. But by, you know, the first revision, they’re like, Oh, fuck, This was probably a bad idea because they give me a laundry list. I’m like, No, this is usually how it goes. The first revision list is ridiculously big, and then we go in, clean everything up, and then after that, they’re like, OK, now I hear I’m getting pretty happy. And by the 3rd 1 there, like perfect, but, um, I’ve actually I’m starting a new revision process. Where once I send you the track, I’m giving you 30 days for unlimited revisions. But after the track is sent after 30 days, then I start charging, cause that gives a little bit more room. But also, they don’t come back in two months, and they’re like, Oh, I’d like to get more riveting, you know? And by that time, I’m like, Listen, it’s been two months. So

have you ever worked in the WalMart? I think you stole this idea from

the I know I haven’t

Probably a year. They cost service. That’s what the other ice on there like. Whoa!

Yeah. 30 day guarantee satisfaction guarantee. Um, um, yes. So what? I guess,

um and you ask another question about the guys who are just sitting there. Tracks? Yeah, timing there is different. You know, when when we were studying up, it was just a custom made service, Same as you do. But my partner Dimitri from Ukraine, he said, like a dude, Let’s just make a shop where everybody can just send their tracks. And I wasn’t a huge controversy. Eri things when with him because I said, Dude, if the tracks are online, they’re not exclusive anymore. Nobody is going to be interested in them because details they want exclusive stuff. And, uh, I think it took us three months to it came three months to convince me Make the shop. So we made it and there was almost, like, 1 to 5 sales a month, which is nothing, but I think it just blew up in 2018. Ah, when the first got interviewed by mixed magazine from Great Britain and then followed up by conferences like a D dance fair. I’m S D J Mac as well. And then we started to blow up and the amount of custom orders it just went down in compared to how much stress we were sending. And I was kind of shocked. And I made an analysis like, Why do people prefer buying something that’s already there? And the answer is simple. Nobody wants to spend their time because time is money. So for some people, for certain people, I’m not saying about everyone, but for most of the people is just easier to scroll on their mobile phone while they’re brushing their teeth. and I boom, this is something that relates to me. I’m going to buy and the average time for producer. I can’t give a precise answer because right now I’m reviewing the library off our tracks, and I still see some submissions from 1018 which means that the tracks are on sale for two years and other tracks. They’re getting solved within 48 hours from the publication, and some tracks are getting sold in Trayvon some trucks against old in six months. It depends how much producer is charging for it. So you never know. That’s answer.

Yeah, you really don’t. And it comes down to the work flow of some of these producers. And I think if you want to be, if you’re listening right now and you’re curious about being a ghost producer, and I think you should be, because if you can produce a really well made track, you have potential to do ghost production and make 56 $700 off of one single track. If you can write five of those tracks in a month and sell five of those, that’s a great fucking living just off of selling music. Um, and I mean, that’s just you working in the studio pretty much full time, but it comes down to your workflow. You need to be able to pump out that many tracks. So if if they’re that good, you can sell a consistent amount and make a good living. But again, it comes down to your workflow and how you’re managing your time. Because if you’re not managing your time well and you aren’t setting yourself up for success when you’re getting in the studio and writing a track and you get sidetracked easily, you’re not gonna finish tracks. You’re not finishing tracks. You’re not gonna be able to make enough to sell enoughto, make your living and live in the real world and just go full time with music and things get a lot if you can go full time with writing music. Everything else gets a lot easier because you have now freed up eight hours of your entire day, where you can dedicate to your music career if that’s what you’re wanting to do. If you’re wanting to also be, you know, a deejay and a touring artist, you now have an extra eight hours to dedicate to How am I gonna build a fan base? How am I going to get better at promotion? How am I going to get booked at gigs? And it comes down to just freeing up that time. Like you’re saying time is money. And if you don’t have that time freed up, then you can’t look out into the world and find those extra things that are gonna push you further on in your career. If I was a producer that wants to sell on E d. M ghost production dot com, what do you guys have requirements for? Like the quality of tracks? Do you guys review everything before it gets posted on the website? Out. How’s that process? Look?

Yeah. Um so if you come to eat English ghost production that come and go to shop section there is a link for producer. Submit your track. When you go into that section, there is a huge least of requirements, but don’t be scared. It’s just made in order for our buyers to be secure about what they’re purchasing and from whom. So we don’t really want to see kids just making their bits using illegal software play answers not clear samples. Yeah, that’s that’s why we have a queue juris rials list. For example, you have Thio, you are not allowed to use a notarized samples than the length of the track. Should be a two least two minutes 30 seconds from some people just want to sell their demos. It’s not how it works. Also as to render stamps properly to a war but empty stems to avoid speaking to avoid weird file naming because finally, meet his important buyer wants to buy not just a track but also a beautifully looking package. Yeah, and they also have a video saying how we should render stamps, how you should prepare the package So everything is out there for producers to learn

when someone selling a track and cause I mean they actually let’s get into this. So when a track is being packaged for selling, whether it’s a custom made track or it’s a producer selling it on your shop, do they? Are they selling their selling all the stems? All the samples included the sounds the plug in like obviously they wouldn’t be selling the plug ins. But are you giving the producer all the plug ins that air used. And I mean, let’s say I produce I producing Q base. If the producer that I’m buying a track from producers that produces an able tin, am I gonna be able to pull that into Q base? Or do I need able? What? What? How is that? How is that all kind of packaged? And how does that look like?

Okay, so the basic package contains Multiply Fuller’s The Stem folder, which is most attractive. A files unmask turd, no plug ins and master. But all the storms are processed, so they’re wet. Another folder is the folder with media files that contains meat information from Important. Since, let’s say, our radio base and leave, we don’t need media for your drum back. Let’s say so. After immediate comes master folders and unmask the folders. If the track has a vocal be required to send instrumental version as well and the radio version as well and extended versions, bills and both in three versions like three of Monsters and three Masters, that’s a default blackish wish our buyer gets and in compared to other websites, we do provide an option for producer to sell the project file If you’re working in Cuba’s, you can applaud it and get extra $50 from sale. Net. Um, buyer decides to buy your track. Reza Q Base project. If he just decides to buy, he was the regular price was the regular package. He’s not gonna get the Q base project file, and you’re going to get paid for an extra. So that’s how

Gotcha. Okay, yeah. So if you’re selling the whole project file, you’re just put slapping an extra fee on that actually makes sense, though, because you’re kind of getting a more detailed look at how everything is processed and looking and running.

Yeah, but you know, we have so much complaints from producer like Hand and want to sell it for so low. I need at least twice money for that, and ah, yeah, we had a long story topic. It all ended up that every producer thinks that he’s making something like a jam. Very unique. He’s using super techniques, But guys, welcome to 2020 and YouTube all over there, and you can just check everything. What’s out there? Your favorite producers making three master classes. There are conferences where you conceal of that. So there is nothing really that should cost so much. So we try to convince producers that if the buyer buys your track with project file ah, it doesn’t mean that he’s not going to get back to you because it is just trees for one track, you know, and your skill. You have so much knowledge in your hat and for each case for each sound for each scale, use different types of black jeans, different change, different chains, black and chains. So it’s not just possible to get your whole knowledge in the 1 $50 project.

This is also a good case of, Like t Think about so many producers want to make something so complex in unique because they think that’s how you’re gonna be the best when you have a 1,000,000 automated files and you’ve got 10 leads stacked on each other and you’re it’s so complex, so it must be so good. But that is so far from the case. So this is a good, um, good reason for you to keep things simple. Simplicity works. People like simple, they simple works and music more than complexity. So if you can keep things simple. You’ll actually train your mind to get away from the fact that oh, I need to be paid more because I made this so complex. So as soon as you start making things more simple, you’ll go, Oh, you know what? This is actually a reasonable I made this track in 10 hours in the studio, so I’ll sell this for 300 bucks. I mean, then you’re making $30 an hour just on working in the studio. That’s probably more money that than most people are making right now working their kitchen job somewhere, you know. So if you can get in this mindset of just keeping things simple, right the track as fast as possible. If it’s good enough and it takes you 10 hours to write the track and you can sell for 300 bucks not making that bat of money, especially if you have five of those tracks lined up and you loved doing it, then it really feels like Oh my God, I can’t believe I can make this. And that $300 is probably way more than you’ll make, putting the track on Spotify and with a with a record label that’s going to take 60 70 80% of the writing credits.

Lots of people start booing here.

Yeah, yeah, tons of a boo boo. You suck.

Explain why. Why? Why? Didn’t think so. Can explain more about,

um Why? Why? People don’t like ghost production.

No, no. Why people not get $300 from release a Spotify.

Well, it’s pretty simple. I mean, Spotify already pays artist 0.7 to the dollar, so I mean, you’re not even making ah, full penny off of 10 streams. I mean, you make very, very, very little money. So and a lot of these record labels, what they’re gonna do is they’re gonna come to you with this, But let’s say you sign with ultra. Let’s just go top of the top. You’re signing with ultra or spinning. They’re going to come with you with a record contract and they’re going to go. We’re going to take 90% royalties here. You’re going to get 10% 0 you have a vocalist, will. That vocalist also wants 50% of that, so you’re gonna actually get 5% royalties own. We also hired a master engineer and they want 3%. So you’re gonna get 2% royalty off of this and

make it video way

Also made a video, and we’re going to charge you for that. So we’re gonna hold up to $10,000 of your of your earnings. I a lot of people are sitting here going. That’s not how the that’s how that works. This is how these record labels do These things. I heard of a I can’t give a name. But I know of a big producer who signed Ultra who got, But I mean, they just took him for everything he had for like, I think he I think he had a deal for like, six months or a year where he had he had to release a certain amount, tracks through ultra, and he made next to nothing. Oh, and this is why DJs charge so much to play. It shows because that’s where they make their money. This is also another reason why you’re seeing so many producers do other things on the side where they’re doing master class stuff. They’re selling their sound packs. There, there, doing ghost production, top tier producers do ghost production because they can write quality tracks. They’re gonna get signed to these labels like spinning like old truck, and they’re gonna make good money off of it. That’s where a lot of producers are gonna make their money. They’re gonna make the $5000 to sell that track to a huge producer. That’s gonna make it on spending that’s going to be in the top 10 on B port for months. They’re going to make a shit ton of money off of just the initial purchase and then all the record label is gonna make the rest of the money. And that’s that’s just how the industry is right now. And when you start looking at those fractions, those five million streams on that one track start to look really fucking small. And I think it’s something like one million streams will make you 4000 U. S. Dollars. And if you’re getting 2% of that,

I actually have another numbers. I’ve got 2000 or 2900 U S dollars for one million streams, then goes to your like label and then label plays it up with you on base in the presentation and deductions. Go, go, go, go, go! And you know, to make want one million streams, It’s not easier than yeah, I mean super, super complicated unless you you got your like, huge fun base. But if you’re just a guy somewhere in volume ing sitting out there making music for fun, probably it’s going to take you a lot of time, connections and money to invest in that one million stream

the time and it does come down to time. It’s it’s it’s putting that 10,000 hours and that people always talk about. You know, if you want to be a master of your craft, you have to put 10,000 hours, and it’s the same case with a musician If you want to be a full touring artist. This is what I tell so many producers who are fairly new and young in the game. I tell him, 10 years it’s gonna take a minimum of 10 years of you working at this for you to be even relatively where you want to be.

But we were not trying to convince producers to quit their dream being new marching Eriks Okay,

Yeah, it’s it’s 10 years. That’s what you’ve got. That’s what you have to look forward to. Um, and you have to decide if you want to accept that now and be like I’m okay with that. This is worth it to me. I want to make music for a living. You got to be in it for a minimum of 10 years. I think I’ve been pretty. I don’t even I don’t produce that. I’m actually starting to produce a little bit more again by me. I’ve been at this for eight years and seven years. I haven’t even hit my 10 year mark. I mean, I’m so I’m still so fucking early. Our buddy Noah. He’s been doing this for 20 years and he’s I mean, it’s like he’s been in this fucking game for a long time, and he’s got great connections. I mean, he consigned to some of the biggest labels, and it that didn’t just come in two years, three years? Sometimes that does happen. Sometimes you get a Martin Derricks who, at 17 they can get gold on one of the biggest tracks ever released in every single DJs playing it at every festival.

It’s such a low person. That amount of people. I do have some friends who, like, made it a couple of tracks, and they played it tomorrow and two years after studying their career. But that’s very low persons issue.

It can happen. And this is, you know, I talk about this on the show. Yeah, I talk about this on the podcast. You might be sitting here listening to a podcast right now, and that might be you. It’s possible that that’s you. It’s just the the odds of that being you are so against you in so slim. And that’s again something you just need to accept Andi for the past. Few

don’t try to convince people because it might. It might actually be true. So why don’t why you kill this? Um, like hope straightaway. I see. I, um, want to be realistic. Okay, but maybe yes, I do. Listen, this ball okay? Said said like a fuck Fuck those guys. I’m going to be the Mack Martin next, And maybe some kind of flock just drops from this guy on him and he gets big, so why not? There

won’t. This is this is actually why I talk about this is why the podcast is here, though, so if it’s four producers who are wanting to be a full time artist, But in order to get there like we’ve talked about, you need to do other things too funny at our fund, your career. So in that, and that’s about starting a business. So if you wanting to be of you want to be the next Martin Garics, you might need to ghost produce to get there to make your money so that you can quit your day job and you can be full time with music. And then you can work on this whole getting connections, Getting the bigger record labels, getting to a bigger audience and booking bigger shows makes it now. I’m not saying Quit your job to go full time with just being a producer and trying to be the next morning. That’s not what you should do. You should find a resource within section or the music industry, where you can do what you love but make the money you need to make to fucking live. And if you can start a small business that’s gonna help your local economy, or you can make how many people do you Do you have people? I mean, I guess No, I could say you you have 500 employees under you technically, because you’ve got people who are selling tracks on your website and they’re making a living off off of your website. In the work that you’ve done, you’re not technically paying their wages, but giving them that opportunity. Where there in front of an audience And they can sell their tracks and make a living So you don’t technically have 500 employees

in the contractor agreements. That’s

exactly yeah. So you’re you, the listener. You might be able to do that. And if you’re able to give that opportunity to people that can change a lot of lives, and that can help fuel a lot of things in people’s local economies. Which is, I think, you know, a couple episodes ago, I had this production company on from Minnesota here in the U. S. And they saw in opening in their market where there weren’t there from this college town and there weren’t a lot of shows going on, and so they saw an opening, said Let’s start throwing shows. They started playing shows for like $100 for a full night. They would just be at people’s houses, throwing house parties. And then they started to move to a legit venue. And then they just had their first festival last year. Um, and they’ve got people under them that most of it is kind of volunteer work, and they make very little money. But this train is rolling now and there. They’ve got, like, six shows a month where they’re paying DJs, and they’re actually like building a business in their local economy. That’s driving entertainment in getting people to go out, buy drinks at bar support, local artists. So you have the opportunity to do this kind of thing. That can do a lot of good for a lot of people, and you never know the amount of lives you’ll touch. Um, and we’re kind of getting off kind of sidetracked here, but this all does kind of. It’s all relevant to what we’re talking about here. And once you kind of understand the thought process of why someone would produce produce tracks, a lot of it comes down to just them. Wanting to make a living off of music and ghost production is I don’t know if easiest should be easy. Should be the word to use, but it’s you can make money. You could move a little ass. Yeah, it is. It is very pleasant. I’ve got I’ve got a buddy. I mean, who came to me just a few months ago who was like, Hey, I’ve got a guy that hit me up Who wants me Ghost produce a track I’ve never done this sort of thing. Could be kind of like I don’t know how I should go over pricing out howto produce a track. I’m curious what you would say to him for he makes really good tracks who and they’ve charted in b port the tracks that he’s made. So how would you How would you determine pricing out a track for a good a good producer who makes a unique track? That’s a unique sound. Um, not too complicated. Like we were saying earlier. It’s very simple, but it’s still unique in the way that it’s produced, and it can chart. It has the opportunity to chart on beat port. How would you price out a track like that?

Yeah, First of all, I love the description That’s what everybody’s saying about their new track when they’re trying to send it to us like this is, this is the best track ever. A super exclusive sound design is gonna be charted. The buyer’s gonna get, like one next morning gags. Nope, Sorry. Ah, and that’s what everybody thinks about his music. But I just like to come down to Earth and try to grab you who you are. So just look up at the labels he release. Look at this similar artist and try to ask their pricing. So you just gonna need to get him because, you know, not everybody’s. Um I mean, no one puts their prices online, so you have to go on parties or, um, like forums or somewhere try to contact them in de M. Just as like, how much do you guys charge? And based on the arches profile? Because right now we’re talking about the Arch is trying to teach his ghost production service right? It’s not just a producer without no name, because no name producer must lychee is going to charge the lowest prize because he doesn’t have any, like, marketing and brand behind him. It’s the guy who is just going to be a setting on websites like us or audio jungle anywhere where you don’t have to worry about the marketing. So this is probably like 2 $300 for a track. But if you’re a guy with a profile than in depends on the environment ah, you just need to do the market research. But I would say, um also depends on the type of Jonah are we talking about? If this is a tech house, if this is the Tech house, which is on hype now, so there. And it’s one of the most easiest and less time consuming genders to make the guy who is releasing on tool room records, um, on Sola share, too. Those times of labels, he was probably charge. I mean, not the guide like label owner or 80 released just a guy who has the releases and place in local collapse on the cows parties. The price would be from 700 to $1000 which is like it’s rice more than no name guy. But if you are A if you are in the, um, almost headliners off those labels, then you can charge $2000. Why? I don’t mention, like, skyrocket prices 5000, 10,000 because, uh, I cannot explain such price. You know, you have to. I think it’s more about marketing. You can charge whatever you want. It depends how frequently going to be paid and actually paid. And not just like, uh, present your price of people.

Mmm. Yeah, I think, uh, the marketing aspect has a lot to do with that as well. You know, you can’t charge $2000 for a track. If you’re no name producer, no writing credits behind, you know, signed releases. That’s just so anyone would look at that and laugh in your face. A no name producer would look at that and laugh in your fucking face. Even if it’s the best produce track in the entire world. They were gonna look at you and go. No, there’s I mean, there’s no reason why I would by this track from you. How many? How often is it that you see record labels? Actually Ah, getting a ghost producer for Do you? Do you guys have record label’s coming to you and saying, Hey, we need this track produced for a producer that wants to sign a tractor. A rental? Oh, no, it’s just producers.

It’s just producer just DJs. Uh, sometimes when the DJ producer he hosts Iran’s the label, then he can ask for Rex. But that’s such a rare thing. I think we only got, like, two or three clients.

Rain should eso If someone wants to start ghost producing, do you think that they should stick toe one genre? Just produce one genre? Should they be working and trying to sell multiple genres? Um, at the same time,

stuff question men because ah, music has no limits and as the rules. So I personally made away where it started making site trans and aggressive transcend and propensity files. And now I’m making all kinds of four on the floor. Kick drum. Generous. But I’m not making German based up step on our website dubstep. I think it’s number four selling genre S O. You know, if I would be, I’m a ghost, Bruce. I’m a money my care. So if I want to make money, I should go to that gender. But I’m not going into dubstep because I just don’t feel myself myself comfortable with those drilling sounds for eight hours, so I prefer making styles less aggressive. It’s all about what you have a passion for, or if you are just a guy who is looking for the money. My advice is to go to be poor. Top Charts 45 Top Charts Take the track, which, like his from 1 to 10 top positions they get, is a reference try to make like a copy of this track. Change of humility is change written slightly and then applause it to platform or peachy to one off your clients if you do have them, and that’s the best way to make money. But if you decide to go another way, um, going into sometimes complex that that is not complex sound design. Just doing what you’re passionate about and what you’re feeling is is right to do at that exact moment. Just go for it. Maybe this truck is not going to sell right away or this month or this year, but, you know, music goes all the time, goes like in a circle. So ah, hip hop was popular in nineties. Now it’s number one honor and the house and was popular in nineties as well. Now it’s number one. I think the future based time we’ll also go back somewhere in, like, 5 10 years and so on. Yes, music is timeless. Depends, Um on ah demand.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is a cycle. It is cycle. And I think that is kind of important to recognize kind of what you want, what you want to do. Ultimately, that’s what this kind of all about. What do you want? Oh, what the fuck do you want to D’oh! Uh, it’s important to make the decision, though. I mean, you don’t want to sit around asking that question for a while. You know, if you’re 45 years in going, well, what do I want to dio? Then It’s really time to sit down and think about what that like figure some shit out because you can’t wait around and just hope for the best. But

we give you two directions. They’re actually more of them. You know, my friend, he’s making music for himself. And then once you got like, 10 tracks, he thinks, what should he pitch for the label release and what he should take for him as an artist and then what’s left is just applauding on our platform. That’s the sir direction, and there are even more. I just don’t probably know them. So you have two guys. Do whatever your heart says.

Yeah, yeah, whatever. Kind of what feels right in the moment, man. It’s It’s all about figuring this stuff out. And we’re We’re talking about something specific to a lot of the things we’re talking about are very specific, and there’s no one way to do anything. Uh, you know, if you want to go on to Edie, um, ghost production dot com and sell your track through there. You can do that. You could start your own website. You can. I mean, the thing is, when you do be still, yeah, Alex is like, Please don’t, um but I mean, the thing is you got to decide what’s worth it if you want to. The getting on Alex’s website is probably he’s Ari taking the time and taking on the risk to get the audience that he has, and so it’s gonna be a lot easier to go on his website. If you start your own, it’s gonna be a lot more difficult, can take a lot more time to try to build that audience that he’s built. Um, he’s already established. So it’s It might be easier to do what you were talking about before taking kind of the scraps of the tracks that are decent, that you don’t want to pitch for your artistry for, you know, for your artist’s name on it might be easier. Just throw those on a website and hopefully, in two months those will selling. You’ll be good to go, but there is no one way to do anything, especially when it comes to music. Music is a very rare thing where there’s just no rules. I mean, you can do whatever the hell you want to do within music. But, um, Mandy, I think that’s that covers just about anything. Is there anything else you want to talk about?

No, man, I can’t talk about ghost production for hours. I just need some direction. Is but ah yeah, Most of the time I say about our website it it’s like a sanctuary, and you don’t have to stick with it so much because some people, they just say, like, Hey, I’m gonna quit my job. I’m because I have already 20 traction website. I don’t think gonna sell soon. But I’m just saying that guys, there’s so much to do. Like you said, Try to focus on your own brand. Tried to focus on your own connections and make your own past. But this website is just there for you if you need extra. I was a fast cash on. It’s like a sanctuary where you can always come and we will always welcome you. But my advice is, try to, uh, become like self established artists. Producer deejay whatsoever.

Yeah, it’s in. It’s about being unique to kind of like, What is your unique selling point? That’s the I think the number one question. You should be asking yourself as an artist, because that’s kind of branding right there. What is How are you unique to the person? To your left, who’s doing the same exact things is you? He’s running the same motions. How were you unique? Indifferent to that person? Why should someone choose you over them? Once you can answer that question, I mean a chick. It shit picks up really quickly at that point, but takes a while to figure that out

and don’t push. Push yourself too hard because some, you know, after releasing that podcast, I might think that, hey, I should put my set myself and Dittemore, and that might be quite challenging. So if you’re really the guy who just want to make ah comfortable leaving with, um, easy taking an easy pass, just try looking for websites that already has their audiences like mine. Maybe audio jungle, maybe some other websites where you can provide the service is go to work to local studio for someone else’s work with someone else. And it’s not like we’re not trying to convince you to be a businessman, but try to think about it.

Yeah, it’s well, a year, 1% right about that. You might not be suit out for the business world, and that’s sometimes why you have someone like a manager to kind of handle that side of things. If if you’re too busy to take those tasks on, there’s someone there to take it on for you. However, as a full time artist, you kind of are a business. Um, at that point, usually your name is set up as an L. L. C. On There’s reasons behind that for you. No liability issues and, uh, tax filings. And what Not especially when you’re making the big bucks. Ah, it’s all in your name. It’s your business is your name, and you are the business. So it’s important to kind of it’s important to think about these things and to consider them, especially if you do want to be quote unquote the next Martin Garics. Um, I have a

plan if something goes wrong, like her on the virus. Yeah, I’m not getting men, you know, because I was supposed to go to tomorrow and winter. Ah, and then got canceled. I supposed to go to Miami Music week for the conference in, got canceled. And right now, we’re at the place where we don’t know how it’s going to affect the music industry. So it’s better to have a backup plan in the regular job as well.

Yeah, I, uh have you We have I’m in Austin, Texas. We have south by Southwest. Have you heard of so? Yeah. Yeah, canceled. And I mean, there’s I was at Ah wouldn’t saw Ben Bomer on Friday. He was here, and I was in the bathroom and some guy was like, Yeah, I lost, like, $5000 just this week, an Airbnb he’s He’s like, I fucking lost a ton of money and a bunch of production companies here are about to go under a CZ. Well, because they there any hospitality place, restaurant bars, anything like that downtown. They’re fucking hurting right now, because a lot of the local economy here is supported by south by Southwest cause it’s two weeks of hundreds of thousands of people coming through the city and spending money at hotels, businesses, bars, restaurants and all the extra food that restaurants have bought. They have to figure out what the hell to do with it, cause now they’re at a major loss. Ah, and it’s it’s bad. It’s really bad. And it’s you don’t because

you could still play. You’re able to push controller in subway, you know? Yeah. We’re really going to pay for it for those streams.

Yeah, man. Alex, I appreciate you taking the time, and this was really awesome. And I think we’re weak. I think we gave a really good insight into ghost production. Hopefully, we were not in the business of convincing people, but I want to take this stigma away from ghost production because I used Thio really frown upon it. But, um, knowing a little bit more about the industry and how things work, usually you’re going to make more money off of that ghost production track that you sold than you would ever have made on streaming from it. So, uh, just think about that. Take that into consideration and realize what that means and push yourself toe, go full time with something that’s gonna make your money. And, uh, then you can focus on, you know, the artistry and making your name big. But, Alex, I appreciate it. If anyone you want to plug anything, go ahead and plug your website where people confined you and a ll that stuff.

Yeah, I just go to e d m. Best go stash production that come and see what it’s all about. Maybe, you know, like it maybe not. Let me

know. Awesome, Alex. Well, thank you so much, man. I appreciate it, and I’ll talk to you later too. Thank you. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that episode. I definitely learned a lot. And you know if if ghost production is something you’re interested in. Go to E. T. M. Dash. Go stash production dot com to check out Alex’s site, and maybe you can get your tracks up there and start selling them, making a little bit money on the side. I know with this whole krone virus scare right now, that might be a good outlet for you guys. You know, you might be able to start producing tracks if you’re out of a job and working hard at that and starting them uploaded the site. And hopefully you can start selling stuff in making a little bit extra money, as always, had envious audio dot com slash Episode 23 to check out all of the show notes all of all the links on there and head to facebook dot com. Look up the Elektronik dance money community to join that and talk some business in a group with other like minded people. Like I said, the beginning of the episode and Goto Apple podcast to leave a good review for other producers to get entered into the mixing and mastering lesson. Give away that I will be giving to one of you guys. Thanks so much. Can’t wait for the next episode. Take care, guys, don’t